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Comments for The Evidence For Ancient Stone Cutting

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these ancient alien

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Re: Drawings

Hey Barry, thanks for writing in!

I'm not sure exactly which drawings you're making reference to. I know there are a number of drawings and artwork that have been cited as proof of ancient aliens. I've looked into the details regarding a few of them.

Of course, the problem is that there's a whole lot of claims made by Ancient Alien proponents, and the people who make these claims don't all agree with each other about which claims are valid. There are way more claims than I can ever cover just by myself, but I am certainly interested in finding the very best evidence available and trying to figure out if it's true.

I agree that if even 1% of the claims have some validity to them that we should be looking at those claims. The problem is that with so many claims, different people will tell you different things if you ask them which is the best evidence.

The task I set for myself was to analyse the very first episode of the Ancient Aliens show, the one entitled "The Evidence". The assumption underlying this is that I would expect this episode to present me with the very best evidence that the Ancient Aliens community has to offer.

So far I've found nothing compelling. Certainly that doesn't mean that there's no good evidence out there, but it makes me wonder: if there IS good evidence out there, why is this episode full of only nonsense? Shouldn't the people who believe in Ancient Aliens be really angry at the show for wasting our time with nonsense when they could be showing actual valid evidence?

If you can give me details of these drawings that you think are compelling evidence, I would love to look into them and let you know what I think.
posted by Dumbass at Friday, 22 February 2013 14:44:48 EST 2:44pm

My Point

The point i'm really trying to make is however i'm not convinced at all. The fact is that all geniuses of the past who started out with a theory which they tried to prove where mocked , laughed at or maybe even killed. Shouldn't we be trying to filter out what could be true and investigate more about the places which could contain more leads instead of taking parts of the theory and dismiss them. Even if 99 procent of things what they claim is incorrect and 1 procent right it is still proof. I'm only saying this not because i want to believe there were ancient aliens but if you look at the probability that in a universe where there are a million planets we are the only living beeings there is a very very small chance this is the case. Maybe your way of working is too prove all things that aren't true to be false so there will only remain the things who could be true. But we should be carefull to dismiss everyting because of some "investagators"who are twisting the truth or spreading lies. When i check different sites it looks like the only thing that matters is to point ut the things that are incorrect instead of investagating the things which they can't explain. If everybody would have done this in the past we wouldn't be where we are now. Not even close.
posted by Barry at Friday, 22 February 2013 09:44:50 EST 9:44am

Drawings

I'm Dutch so pardon my english. After reading your analysis i really get what your saying about the stone cutting and the way some people are reasoning. However about the ancient astronauts or moleman story. In this topic there are a wide variaty of possibilities of "beeings"which could have visited us if anyone did at all. The fact ancient aliens theory supporters are concluding there are aliens from outer space has very little to do with these stones i think but for other reasons like very details Sketches/Drawings of what seems to be a variant of spaceshuttle which we have today. I want to state that i'm not convinced about any proof that there were any ancient aliens but i'm also not 100% convinced there weren't . Are you (or maybe you already did) also making a topic about these drawings/sketches ( which i saw on a previous episode) which ancient alien believers claim to be Spacecraft ? I'm not talking about the kind of wall painting in which they claim a guy is sitting on some kind of rocket spacecraft ( i've read topics about that) but of the detailed sketches of a spaceshuttle ( i think you know what i'm talking about) I'm really curious about that one.
posted by Barry at Friday, 22 February 2013 09:24:08 EST 9:24am

Re: reply

I'm sorry to have to inform you of this Mr. annonomus, but pretty much everything you have said is wrong.

The manpower to move large stones was available in ancient times, even without the benefit of pulleys, as I've already clearly demonstrated in other articles. With a little lubrication and a sled, it only takes 2 men to move 1 ton. A 200 ton object would only require 400 men. The largest blocks ever moved in ancient times are around 1000 tons. 2000 men to drag a stone is a large project, but it's not undoable and they could probably get away with using fewer since those stones were moved 300 years after the time of Archimedes who famously invented pully systems allowing large objects to be moved by very few people, so those stones probably required only a fraction of that.

And the stones are not so precise that we can only now duplicate them. That's just complete nonsense only asserted by people who don't know what they're talking about. People who are actually experts in ancient tools will all tell you that there's nothing mysterious, and this idea of supernatural precision is complete BS.

Every stone does not have a "perfect replica", that's abundantly clear from every photo. They all have different shapes and sizes. There's no way to conclude that these are anything but stones cut on the fly to try and fill a different gap on each occasion. I'm surprised that you'd even try to make that claim.

Trust me annonomus, I'm not afraid of being challenged, and I will hold up the actual facts of reality against people's nonsense "inspirations" any day of the week.
posted by Dumbass at Friday, 15 February 2013 07:55:24 EST 7:55am

reply

Your fuckin retarded. There are some things you just can't explain like a higher power looking out for your ass when you sure weren't. Don't believe it. Then your just obstinate and hard headed. Thats being closed minded and bias in your opinnions based off your life events. As a scientist your supposted to think outside the box. Even with all the pullies and systems needed. You couldn't get the manpower consentrated in one area to lift such large stones. And where would you get the resources to lift such large stones. And the construction of these stones as stated is so percice that we can only now do it. Every stone has a perfect replica. Think about it erosion wouldn't make them all fit as perfectly as they do you can clearly see that in the roman aquaduct. It just sounds to me as a hollow headed excuse to say earth is the center of the universe and man is the all important. Because you are to scared to admit that you may be wrong and are either too old to put in time, effort, and real research to decide wether you are right. Afraid to conform to new ideas and beliefs.
Think next time before you spew out a bullshit research analysis paper, anyone with a college education can do that. Stop confusing people and leave that to their own inspirations to figure.
posted by annonomus at Thursday, 14 February 2013 13:25:35 EST 1:25pm

People are amazing

People are amazing, no doubt about it. Ancient man was amazing to broach the principals to create these structures. AA does not tackle the Pantheon, and the Colosseum because they are older, more complex, and have clear records if man being responsible. People are amazing, that after so much detail, so much explanation of types of materials and construction practises from professionals in the field some still cannot wrap their little minds around basic constriction, and feel this is reason to negate an in depth and proven explanation. People are amazing they they would belittle the achievements of their ancestors to "feel right" about a fantasy. People are amazing in how they insult a person who has gone to great lengths to explain something to them, disagreement is reason for insult for these people.

People are amazing. Many as we see above are not overly impressive these days, and not overly smart these days. I guess some have to fall back on aliens as some used to fall back on Gods. But many above amaze me, in that they feel a need to believe Aliens had to fly to earth to help ancient man stack rocks together.

People are embarrassing.
posted by Psyche101 at Saturday, 19 January 2013 22:29:50 EST 10:29pm

Wondering who , how, why, and where.....

Anyone that claims they can cut granite like they did 1000s of years ago, I'd love to see them cut it from the quarry then move it 500 miles to a worksite and lift it 1050 foot in the air.... Just isn't gonna happen, not even with all the modern tools.. Do it at Machu Picchu Peru and use NOTHING but ancient tools..... Just can't be done.. The rock must have weighed at least 25 tons, have 20 facets, and fit exactly with in a wall with 6 other stones touching so close a piece of paper can't fit between them. I DO NOT know, claim to know how this was done, but I do know we can't do it today, the transportation of the rock would be the easiest thing to do, and that's gonna be one hell of a ride (can't use any modern roads either). I have seen the BS students make a 1 ton rock and lift it 3' in the air and stack it on another rock, that's not what I'm talking about, I am talking about the HIGE rocks at Machu Picchu Peru, and the 300 TON stones in the praaminds.... The east wall... Etc..... These stones are so huge, most modern cranes couldn't handle them, but the ancient people did, 100s if not 1000s of times (rocks over 100 tons) and the MILLIONS of 110 ton rocks/stones. Simply amazing by any standard
posted by Mjclemm at Tuesday, 8 January 2013 02:00:12 EST 2:00am

Re: Lol sorry guys

Hey Voodoo, thanks for writing in.

I think perhaps you've misunderstood what I wrote. I never said that fire was the answer for how ancient people cut their stone blocks. I only said that this was how they created the Dujiangyan Irrigation System.

Nobody ever said that this irrigation system was dug through granite. And yes, fire will crack rocks. Sure, it won't crack granite, but the story of the Dujiangyan Irrigation System never had anything to do with granite.

And these claims of absolute perfect workmanship are pure nonsense. None of the stones are cut in a way that's remarkable for the tools they were using. They had tools to allow them to create straight lines like plum bobs and levels. And cutting even tough stone like granite can be done even with copper tools by using sand. If you'd like a video, try this one:

http://ancientaliensdebunked.com/referencesandtranscripts/pumapunku/
posted by Dumbass at Saturday, 6 October 2012 23:29:55 EST 11:29pm

By the way

I'm a metal worker , a mechanic , a welder , plus i have a degree in firefighting etc I work for 25 years in that domain and I could think of ways to maybe carve cut etc into rocks (stone) but would need my tools lol and I don't mean my chisel and hammer lol c'mon man snap out of it

And I would never be able to do what they did and so perfect , again without our modern machinery and that's for sure it's a fact

Plus most of the stone and art look pretty buff and polish and so perfectly cut with sharp corners so perfectly done the problem ain't the drawing making perfect circle or straight line lol the real problem is to cut it so perfectly , I challenge anyone to prove to me on video how they done with a live show hehe and I know lots of masons and they can't do it without the modern technology

That's it that's all
posted by VOODOO at Saturday, 6 October 2012 12:10:15 EST 12:10am

Lol sorry guys

Hi , lol y'a Well sorry Man. But putting fire to big big rock so it can break etc lol no way bro especially granite it would take such a big big big fire and even to warm up a big stone like we see every we're its impossible seriously

For the shape cutting ,mathematique or geometric application ain't hour problem , the problem is how to cut the rock so precise without a defect and look polish that's the problem , especially to city's and that was before the iron or copper or what ever civilization like in turkey 12000 year old city or underwater city in Japan dates back from 10500 to 36000 years ago or like the wall found in afrika that dates back 120million years ago loll how did they cut the rocks the stone etc they didn't have any real tool and stop with that fire theory lolll cuz it really don't had up take a rock and try to put fire on it and look at what kind of fire that could really heat up the Rock to a point that the rock will be easyer to cut lol especially granique cuz almost all the temple and city's were built with that hard stone

So yes it's fun to read you but again no sense lol you didn't check with a real fireguy loll , but thx for making me laugh this morning
posted by VOODOO at Saturday, 6 October 2012 11:56:10 EST 11:56am

uuuughhhh...

Cant we all just watch a show that peaks our interests without fighting about it. The fact that most of these early man made structures follow placements of major stars means that AT LEAST they were looking up and found some importance to what they saw... not just looking around as to who was right or wrong or what was right or wrong...

We're a selfish, egotistical, and terrible species on this planet and to think that a more advanced "Alien" species from somewhere else took an interest in us, during our not so ridiculously horrible times, is impressive. If they left and took all their amazing knowledge and tools, well, I think that reflects on us...

If aliens did come here to help us out with advancements in technology I'm sure they quickly realized that that we were not the type of species to give that technology to because we would mostly use it for destruction... THE END. Good Day, Sir! .... ISAIDGOODDAY!!!
posted by Pureupto99percent at Wednesday, 5 September 2012 04:51:57 EST 4:51am

huh?

One thing becomes apparent on reading some of these commentsReductio ad Absurdem is a compulsory subject on the Alien School syllabus.
Also, why does every gap in human understanding have to be filled by moneygrubbing shysters exploiting a credulous public? I would be interested to know how many units Tsoukalas et al. shift annually. Alien conspiracy theorists, apply a credo you might be familiar with consistently and fairly trust noone.
This anger has made me tired. I'm off to slough my reptoid skin. Which one's the irony emoticon?
posted by atticus at Friday, 17 August 2012 04:27:23 EST 4:27am

Untitled

These 1200 ton stones you speak of were merely QUARRIED but never moved by the romans, however there are 800 ton stones that are part of the platform that existed before the Heliopolis was constructed. As for puma punku and the roman aqueduct I don't see how you can compare the two one is made of much smaller stones and looks poorly fitted together when compared to the megalithic stones of puma punku where there not even a crevice that a sliver of paper can fit. They are also smoother than Megan fox's ass! It is completely evident that copper and stone chisels could not have made the interior corners that exist in many of the stones at puma punku.
posted by Isaac at Monday, 13 August 2012 04:38:44 EST 4:38am

How was it done?

The question isn't did aliens helped them it really is "how was it done?" The logistics for any large stone project is staggering let alone a monolith. You have to have a sufficient population to grow food, working supplies (ropes, tools etc.) You need an army to protect you from your enemies. You need thinkers who have exceptional math skills for layout, design, load capacities and so on. To accomplish all this you need skilled craftsmen, a strong nobility and a strong priest hood.
The funny thing is there are many impressive stone structures built by the Romans, Greeks and many other nations but nothing on the scale of earlier cultures. The earlier groups seem to have a better concept of astronomy. Medieval and rennasiance have a greater enginnering capability but never attempted anything even on the scale of roman archtecture The only modern attempt at monolithic structures were attempted by the Nazi engineers and the they failed because the could not keep them from sinking into the ground. They were just too heavy. Makes you think how did they prepare the ground before they even built the smallest of the three pyramids at Giza.
I did like the scene in "10,000 BC" Where they were using mammoths to pull the large blocks up. It only seems logical to me animals would have been used instead of just manpower to move these huge blocks. I found this blog by looking to find how exactly the mason work is done. I don't like when claims are made that this or that is impossible or cannot be recreated by modern man. First we have to see how we would do it now and work backwards However it your going to make a claim that it is possible then put your money where your mouth it and prove it. If you say 200 men can move a 200 ton stone from a quarry and up an incline then do it.
You can slam somebody for their theories or religion that takes faith to believe is one thing but it is another to do the math and the method for proof.
Why all the gods fly in vehicles is the biggest mystery to me. The earth is most likley much older than believed and the cultures far more advanced than thought. An example is the stone structures in Central and South america but when the europeans arrived the natives were still in the stoneage execept for gold use. Hmmmm?
Don't you think if the natives had crossed the bearing strait to occupy the americas would have been more advanced the farther north you go not the opposite way around. Sorry no spell checker on this post. Too tired to fix my spelling or grammer. My point is that you need to answer and prove the smaller questions before you can answer the larger questions, Thankyou
posted by Beanicus at Thursday, 9 August 2012 09:19:25 EST 9:19am

Big ass stones

Mr. Dumbass, I appreciate your research into my favorite t.v. show, Ancient Aliens. I, too, find much hyperbole and flights of fancy, but some fascinating stuff. The thing that has struck me throughout the series is the size of the stones that have been moved. Researchers agree that some of the stones of Ba'albek in Lebanon weigh 800 ton (1.6 million lbs). Recently in L.A. a 340 ton stone was moved to a museum as artwork. It took an enormous effort and logistics to accomplish this relatively move. See my blog post about Ba'albek at (http://mentorboom.com/2011/12/26/the-mystery-of-the-baalbek-stones/)
posted by mentorboom at Friday, 13 July 2012 10:00:14 EST 10:00am

Re: WEAK CONCLUSIONS

Thanks for writing in Mr.. Question Mark!

I would love to address your criticisms, but I will need you to explain yourself a little. For example, you say that my explanations are weak. If you can give me examples of what I've said that's weak, I would love to be able to address your concerns.

Please let me know what I've said that you disagree with. If I've made some sort of factual or logical error, I will be very happy to publicly make a correction.
posted by Dumbass at Saturday, 30 June 2012 10:14:52 EST 10:14am

WEAK CONCLUSIONS

This article is 100% bias towards the fact that aliens don't exist. The author weakly describes things that he claims can be explained even though he doesnt actually understand what hes talking about. If you want to bury your head in the sand like the majority of people on this planet than that is fine, but to write this horse shit with the weakest examples i've ever heard is ridiculous. Maybe in you'r next article you can attempt to explain all of the structures on our planet that we couldn't even replicate today with current technology. Most of the structures on our planet that can not be explained come with stories and legends from the people who actually lived in these structures, stating that the "gods" created them and not the people.
posted by ? at Thursday, 28 June 2012 14:02:10 EST 2:02pm

Re: Oh?

> I'm Sorry did you just compare granite rocks weighting 600000
> pounds to rocks in the Aqueduct of Segovia that weigh at most
> an estimated 6000 pounds? Good critical analysis.

No, at no point did I compare the 600,000 pound rock of Saqsaywaman to the rocks in the Aqueduct of Segovia.

What I compared was the mortarless cut granite bricks of Macchu Picchu to the mortarless cut granite bricks of the Roman Aqueduct of Segovia.

If I had wanted to make a comparison between the 600,000 pound rock at Saqsaywaman and an ancient Roman construction, I would have used the Temple of Jupiter at Baalbek in Lebanon, where stones were put into place weighing more than 2.5 million pounds.
posted by Dumbass at Saturday, 12 May 2012 07:57:07 EST 7:57am

Re: you are crazy

> Seeing that there are billions of stars in our solar system, most like
> our sun. I find it hard to believe that all these other stars dont have
> planets that are much, if not exactly like our planet and can and dont
> support life.

I have never once said that aliens don't exist. I've only said that there's no evidence that they visited us in the past.
posted by Dumbass at Saturday, 12 May 2012 07:50:54 EST 7:50am

Re: Roman Cranes

Sorry St. Alphonso, but you're just wrong. You don't need extremely modern equipment to move giant stones, you just need a lot of manpower.

The Romans built the Temple of Jupiter at Baalbek hundreds of years after Archimedes famously invented a compound pulley system that would allow one man to move a large ship by himself. He famously said "Give me a place to stand, and I shall move the world".

You write things off as impossible that are clearly and provably possible. You're the one who's closed minded here.
posted by Dumbass at Saturday, 12 May 2012 07:47:55 EST 7:47am

Oh?

I'm Sorry did you just compare granite rocks weighting 600000 pounds to rocks in the Aqueduct of Segovia that weigh at most an estimated 6000 pounds? Good critical analysis.
posted by Oh Really? at Friday, 11 May 2012 01:35:09 EST 1:35am

you are crazy

Seeing that there are billions of stars in our solar system, most like our sun. I find it hard to believe that all these other stars dont have planets that are much, if not exactly like our planet and can and dont support life. If life can flourish here, why not other places. Besides, every thing on this planet comes from space anyhow. Water is supposedly the key to life. It is everywhere in space on different planets so please bxelieve that there is more than likey life outside of our own planet.
posted by whatever at Tuesday, 8 May 2012 01:52:25 EST 1:52am

Hatteras Lighthouse Move

Yes, moving the lighthouse was a fantastic piece of engineering; however, the temple-mount stones were lifted and set precisely on top of other giant stones. They were lifted and set in place. And without the use of modern equipment and methods. There is no link to the technology available to ancient man and lifting giant stones.

In Bolivia, they evidently lifted giant stones from one side of a valley and hoisted them thousands of feet up the other side. Really? Case closed, back to March Madness?
posted by st alphonso at Sunday, 18 March 2012 11:41:13 EST 11:41am

Roman Cranes

Really. So one document: "Romans built the giant platforms", you assume is true because it fits your postulate, but other documents are invalid because they don't. The Romans did some amazing things, but they didn't have giant hydraulic cranes to lift 1200-ton stones.
I have no reason to believe there are aliens any more than I have a reason to believe there are not. But you don't need 1200-ton monoliths to build a temple footer. It should also be obvious that the temples were built because the mount was there, not that the mounts were built to hold the temples.

The most important thing is that you mark off the stuff that is not possible to work toward the truth. What you have done is ignore the impossible and move on to the next question. Modern man would need the most advanced equipment on earth now to lift those stones--how did ancient man without even electricity, power motors, etc. do it?

This may be important because the truth might be thrust upon us any time and we're not going to be ready for it because in our arrogant ignorance we think we already know it all. I remember when I got my engineering degree and thought I knew everything--until my first day at work. In our lifetimes we will only know a fraction of what there is to know, and calling a fascinating look at the incredible reality we have been born into garbage is sad. Let's look at the evidence all around the world and try to figure it out. Not call each other idiots because we ask questions.

PS. I have seen very hot rocks and splashed water on them. You know what? They are not phased one bit. Just because someone says they did something does not mean that they did. The churches in Ethiopia are claimed to have been made by one man holding a magic 'wand' or something in one night. That's what the Ethiopians today claim (first hand, that is what they say). Does that make it true, or does that make it fit with their religious beliefs?
posted by st alphonso at Sunday, 18 March 2012 11:27:23 EST 11:27am

Re: Theory

Hey St. Alphonso, Thanks for writing in!

You asked about the 1200 ton stone. What you may not realize is that that stone was quarried by the Romans. We have a lot of writing passed down from the Romans, if they'd been getting the benefit of alien technology, it's pretty certain that we'd have a record of it.

I've already written about how they moved stones in the ancient world. Please copy this link into your URL bar:

http://www.dumbassguide.info/blog.php?bid=67

And also, take a look at the following video demonstrating that just one man can use simple techniques to move multi ton stones by himself. Imagine what hundreds or thousands of men working together could do:

http://www.dumbassguide.info/blog.php?bid=68
posted by Dumbass at Sunday, 18 March 2012 09:20:31 EST 9:20am

Theory

Of course there is a bias to the show. Once you have established a theory, you are trying to build evidence to support that theory. Most of us have been indoctrinated via agenda: either religious or political. Both want to dismiss our tendency to look at the world in awe and keep our nose to the grindstone and be productive so we can pay tithes and taxes so politicians and clerics don't have to be productive.
My theory is that thousands of years ago, human civilization broke down to the point where we essentially started over with much of the knowledge of our history lost, perhaps through a destructive nuclear war. I just cannot believe that people plowed fields with oxen built pyramids. Think for a second how foolish that concept is.
posted by st alphonso at Sunday, 18 March 2012 03:41:17 EST 3:41am

Proof

The concept of the show is not that there is definite proof, but that there is evidence all over the world that does not add up to our accepted understanding of the history of man. Perhaps there is another answer. I'm sure they called Galileo a dumb ass because he thought the world was not flat. If you look for one clear moment with a half-open mind, you have to admit there is something to the composite body of evidence displayed in the series.
Man is capable of incredible things, but if extrapolate where we are now and go back thousands of years ago and say that they were moving million-pound precision cut stones around, you are the fool--just explain how one 1200-ton stone was lifted by ancient people without powerful modern cranes. Just that one thing, and then you still have a thousand other structures around the world that defy logical explanation. The largest crane in the world can lift around 500 tons--not half the capacity of one stone. And not just one, there are several 'Temple Mount' structures in the world.
posted by st alphonso at Sunday, 18 March 2012 03:16:01 EST 3:16am

Hmm...

I just don't get it. I mean, I think even the most logical minded people, with the knowledge of the vast size ans scope of the universe; could perhaps think that maybe, just maybe aliens have visited here, and more so, that ALIENS may in fact exist. For me, it's just in the #'s. To think humans are the only intelligent beings out there...not to mention all the strange phenomena out there. Though we could chalk all this up to slave labor(though I've been reading more and more that it was voluntary labor and not slave labor), it is highly unlikely. I mean really, ropes to lift all those stones of the pyramids? Really? The info that one cannot deny is the precision of the work done. Really? People of this time builty these monuments to this precision, and they weren't "smart" enough to have a wheel or pulley system, and we're supposed to believe they had ramps to transport these stones? I think it strange how vehemently some people will go to try and make the argument for pure human labor fit, and totally discredit any absurdity that maybe ancient cultures did have help from somewhere or something. That is highly unlikely for us, considering... Supposedly we still have a lot of catching-up to do for astrology as well, since the Incans, Aztecs, Mayans, and Egyptians were apparently experts...before the invention of a telescope. That's not strange at all, we'll just accredit that success to all the free time they had. I also love the idea of all the copper tools chipping away at the rock...especially like granite. Copper... chipping away at granite...right. Gotcha. So I guess now people can use granite tools to make diamond jewelry. See how that doesn't work? As far as the Ancient Aliens program, it's definitely a stretch, most definitely. But how does one account for all the imagery for flying ships, helicopters in the hieroglyphs? People just thought that up in hopes that one day they might actually fly. I guess like we do with teleportation right?, because the technology doesn't exist yet, but many people recognize the idea, but hasn't happened. Right, gotcha on that, but the question still comes up with the culture aspect, the fact that many cultures share the same stories, and a lot of them have flying vessels of some sort. How about the precision again. In that PumaPunku story done by them, they had machine cutters messing up the stones that they tried making. A machine making mistakes, and we think that a human with a copper chisel is going to do better than that? For real? Alright, even if one doesn't believe in Aliens giving help, one should and MUST accept that our current ideas on the knowledge of the people of that time is severely misunderstood, and that with all the knowledge that we think we've gained, in the end it shows us more about the extreme amount of knowledge that we lack on the subject. So to take away any theory is heresy. We can believe that Jesus exists, but not aliens, that would be just too weird. But to me, it is entirely more mathematically possible to have been visited by an advanced race of people who may have guided us, than ancient peoples just coming up with this on their own. Also, I liked the example used about the Chinese man who built the irrigation system by heating rocks and then applying cold water. That's great, good idea. I just wanna know how that factors into the pyramids and what not. So they may have heated very large sections of rock and just used some cold water to pop them out, to help form the stone. Right, so they had fires constantly burning at a quarry somewhere, and I do mean fires, because they'd apparently have to heat a mountain side or something to have done this to so much rock. How were they heating this? Was there a huge expanse of trees and burnable material to do so?, Coal maybe? Right.... So now we're reduced to thinking up the most illogical means to how these ancient structures were built. I find it extremely odd as well, that through ALL of this, people have neglected the accounts that were left behind by the people. We find it very, very hard to imagine that they might have been telling the truth. The gods, or aliens; though were written as have influenced their life, we don't believe it... at all. We don't even take their word for it, because we haven't seen gods, or aliens. Quite the role to take really. Especially when anyone mentions an alien, they think automatically how crazy the idea is and that it is unfathomable. So now, people still can't imagine how in the world these monuments were built, give them extraordinary credit for what these cultures have done...even as much to give them the credit as to say "We don't know how in the world you did it, how advance you were for the times", but then totally take their written word and say "Can't be, gods/aliens don't exist. We've never seen them, so let's go about this using our current perception of the world". Awesome.
posted by bbsays at Wednesday, 14 March 2012 10:56:26 EST 10:56am

Re: Shape within a Shape...

Thanks for bringing this to my attention Avelis. I am going to watch through the second episode and see if I can spot what you're talking about. If there is the exact same design represented in these two cultures, that would certainly be an interesting finding.
posted by Dumbass at Wednesday, 7 March 2012 21:19:05 EST 9:19pm

Shape within a Shape...

Out of those images? The "Second One"?

You can find the EXACT SAME DESIGN in the Great Pyramid.

I actually noticed this while watching the first two episodes of Ancient Aliens. They showed that stone at Puma Punku, and then later in the episode they showed people in the pyramid at Giza, and my jaw just dropped. They didn't put 2 and 2 together, but I did. That "upside down stepped scalene triangle"? It's the same shape!

Look it up.
posted by Ayelis at Wednesday, 7 March 2012 14:22:56 EST 2:22pm

Recent Posts

Hey Danny and Avid Watcher,

Thanks for writing in. I don't have time to answer all your points right now, but I'm going to try and fit them into my next podcast episode. If not episode 10 it should be in episode 11.

I think you both deserve thorough responses to your criticisms and I plan to answer you to the best of my ability.
posted by Dumbass at Monday, 19 December 2011 21:29:28 EST 9:29pm

tiahuanaco/Puma Punku.

I watch every episode of "Ancient Aliens" and sometimes shout at the television because of the stupidity of the hypothesis they conjured. (example: They buried the dead in a box because they saw the astronauts climbing into the ship....Hell no, they put them in a box to protect their rotting bodies from being dug up by animals and buried them to avoid the smell) However, many of you are bypassing some of the evidence that while Puma Punku may be carbon dated at about 340 AD, the port of Tianhuanaco, very close to Puma Punka has a date estimated at 1530 to 1700 BC. If you look at the structures there, they are pretty impressive engineering feats.
The key here, is to look at some of the evidence and weigh it yourself. Sorry Dumbass, some of your "proof" is just as silly as theirs. Not everything presented on the show is proof and some is laughable, but other bits make you stop and think...That's a good thing by the way. Melted stone??? Ehhhh Maybe reaching a bit but not out of the question. There once was an old theory that noted the use of certain tonal frequencies might lift stone and cut rock. I'd believe that more than melting the rock. But the key here is that many of the structures in that area are far older than the estimated 340+/- AD.

If you subscribe to the theory of evolution, you still have nothing but a theory....I don't. I believe in intelligent design...Whose design is the question. I base my belief from studying for years about ancient religions and comparing them to our Bible, many of the stories overlap as do the beliefs. You have to ask yourself why. (Don't do your neighbors wife and Don't kill..etc are pretty self explanatory. Other things aren't.)

I believe there is evidence of Alien sightings and of course, an afterlife. (Yes, I saw dead people. I'm not exactly proud of that fact, it just happens periodically...and most of them I don't know...Yes, I am sane, don't do drugs don't drink or take medication and probably one of the most logical people you'd ever meet.) The only reason I bring this up is because what if they weren't aliens but simply time or dimension travelers....again, I'm just saying what if, not that they are.

The minute we can't allow ourselves pause from what we know to enter into a "what if" potential thought, that's the time we quit being creative and growing. 120 years ago, much of the technology today was science fiction...Yet Edgar Cayce described the crystals used for communication at Atlantis that matched the silicon transistors today. Not proof, just interesting.
posted by Avid Watcher at Monday, 19 December 2011 15:40:54 EST 3:40pm

It's all theory !

Hi there,

I’ve been reading your point of views of the Ancient aliens theory and I think it’s important for everyone to understand that perhaps the idea of Aliens having implications with ancient civilizations is just as plausible as any other theory. I mean, this is why it’s called a theory. Perhaps the television series and some of the astronaut theorists are pushing more than less with their evidence and perhaps they are even a little blindsided to some extent. But in reading your blog, it seems you are doing the same with the way you undermine everything they theorize on. Some of your points are really good but on the other hand, you seem to be trying too hard to nullify everything in their theory.

I look at the Saqqara bird, the golden flyer and other evidence and feel compelled to think that the interpretation theories can in fact go both ways. Of course, when one states the word alien, it instantaneously sounds far-fetched (actually, less and less nowadays) but wouldn’t it be closed minded or naïve to exclude the theory?

Basically, what I am saying it, ok fine, argue the claims and debate them but don’t try so hard that even your counter points become biased.
For the record, some ancient masonry like Puma Punku and the Giza pyramid and ancient records flight like reference in hieroglyphs or sand scripts just don’t make sense to us yet. To the point where it’s hard to believe that creativeness or artistic concepts are their reasoning. Now, this can either be because some ancient civilizations where in fact much more advanced than we give them credit for (which frightens me when I ask myself what happened to them!) or there could very well have been help from a more evolved species from elsewhere in this infinite space we occupy. Perhaps there is even logic in the theory of time travel. My point: who knows and why not?

All that being said, I urge you to continue your blog as it’s these different points of view and the debating that could help us, eventually solve some of these mysteries. But do hurry as the Mayan calendar hints that you most likely only have until Dec 2010 to make this happed ;-)

Danny
posted by Danny at Sunday, 18 December 2011 20:02:41 EST 8:02pm

untitled

Thank you for looking at all the material critically and writing your commentary in such detail. I totally agree with your analysis.
http://www.dumbassguide.info/skins/_smilies/icon_smile.gif

I am a skeptic; which means that I basically say, "What is the proof for this statement or story?" In general, there are 3 possible outcomes:
- If there is not adequate proof and the story goes against our accumulated knowledge, then I conclude that the story is most likely false. (e.g. astrology, UFOs, flat-earth, Creationism, Intelligent Design, Scientology, Raelians, Urantians, polywater, N-rays, cold fusion, eternal soul, etc.).
- If there is not adequate proof but the story does not go against our accumulated knowledge, then I conclude that the story MAY be true. (e.g., the Mayor of New York walked down 5th Avenue today dressed as a clown). In that case, I suspend judgement until further evidence is available to prove or disprove the story.
- If there is adequate proof, I am willing to accept the statement.
posted by achitnis at Friday, 25 November 2011 15:58:41 EST 3:58pm

idiots

there is no proof of space aliens - show me the bones - ships - or advanced technology they left behind - you idiots believe this garbage with no proof what so ever - you are the most gullible of all people - your ignorance is proof there is a sucker born every minute!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
posted by stratiotes at Wednesday, 16 November 2011 22:19:18 EST 10:19pm

untitled

actually, attributing an unknown for "mole men" is not equal to attributing it to aliens. mostly since we know that subterranean mole men dont exist, but its very possible and probable that aliens do. its more logical to attribute an unknown to something that probably exists, than to attribute it to something we all know does not exist.
posted by Jack at Wednesday, 26 October 2011 16:18:36 EST 4:18pm

untitled

Some of the rocks carved in South America are diorite. Diorite is a very hard rock, and could only be cut with diamond. So did the ancients have diamond-tipped tools or something?
posted by Bob at Thursday, 13 October 2011 17:49:07 EST 5:49pm

untitled

I'm 100 percent with the guy who said to get a couple of teams and knock yourself out on this one. One using primitive tools and one using modern diamond tipped saws and machinery. They have already conducted experiments to see if it is possible to have rolled, pulled, sledded the blocks of the Great Pyramid. Yes, they could...with dozens and dozens of men pulling ONE block...on rollers with mud. But the amount of feet they were able to pull it over hours and hours time? PATHETIC. They were not able to pull it more than some dozen feet in several hours time. Much less to roll them across ANY distances...or the ones required to get them to the site and up to those elevations with gravity defying them all the way. NOT EVEN CLOSE. Their experiments FAILED. Just as they would fail in trying to prove that mankind with primitive tools and means could haul or carve the diorite and granite rocks at Pumapanku, Machu Pichu or any of these other sites to within 2/1000's of an inch. NOT gonna happen.. So...go ahead...conduct your own experiment and see what you find. Take the challenge. ;-)
posted by CKLaRosa at Thursday, 6 October 2011 10:03:25 EST 10:03am

Re: Untitled

Hey G, thanks for writing in!

> How can you compare the Inca from 200 BC with the Romans
> around 100 AD? That's a 300 year difference. The technology
> would be far more advanced 300 years later.

You're a little confused. At no time did I compare the Inca from 200 BC with the Romans of 100 AD. I mentioned Pumapunku, which was dated to around 200 BC, but I didn't involve it in any comparisons.

If you're referring to my comparison of Machu Picchu to the Aqueduct of Segovia, I need to point out that:

1. The Inca didn't exist in 200 BC.

2. The construction of Machu Picchu began around 1400 AD, long after the heyday of the Roman empire

3. In either case, there were no exchange of technologies between the two civilizations, so this idea that technological progress plays any part in the story is a non sequitur.

The whole point of the comparison was to show that it's possible to form granite into blocks, and to use them with no mortar to build structures. This can be done without the use of modern machinery, and it doesn't require aliens in order to explain it.

> Don't forget Europeans and Asians have historically been more
> advanced than people from other regions in the world. Therefor,
> the Romans could have been, and probably were, far more
> advanced than the Inca, yet the Inca were somehow able to
> achieve similar success in stonework.

You're assuming that it would take a more advanced civilization like the Romans to even be able to cut granite and form these kinds of structures. That's just not the case.

Cutting stone is an ancient technology. When the Romans cut stone, they weren't engaging in a state-of-the-art activity for them. They were engaging in a tried and true construction techniques that had been around for centuries.

So, for example, a person today with an inoperable bad knee might use a cane. The technology of the cane hasn't changed in centuries. By your logic, though, we live in a far more advanced civilization than somebody from hundreds of years ago. Yet we're expected to believe that these ancient ancestors of ours were also able to achieve similar success in cane technology?

> Also, they think the stones were molten at Pumapunku because
> of their look and feel. Stone that has been molten is much
> smoother that regular stone, which your photo seems to indicate,
> so the rocks probably were molten at some point.

Polishing stones to make sure that they're smooth is actually a pretty simple concept, and you can buy polished stones from any new-agey store that deals in crystals. Those stones weren't melted.

And scientists can tell the difference between stones that were melted into shape while molten, and those that were cut. And I'm sorry, but there's no scientific debate on this. The stones at Pumapunku were cut. You can even visit the quarries, and see ancient stones in various stages of *being* cut.

There's really no argument that these stones were melted into place.
posted by Dumbass at Wednesday, 5 October 2011 16:49:08 EST 4:49pm

untitled

How can you compare the Inca from 200 BC with the Romans around 100 AD? That's a 300 year difference. The technology would be far more advanced 300 years later. Just look at how far we've come in the last 300 years. You assume that the Romans and Inca had the same technological abilities, because they existed during the same or similar time period. If you look at the world now, we have airplanes, guns, computers, etc, but if you showed these things to a tribesman in Africa, they would think you were a god. Don't forget Europeans and Asians have historically been more advanced than people from other regions in the world. Therefor, the Romans could have been, and probably were, far more advanced than the Inca, yet the Inca were somehow able to achieve similar success in stonework.
Also, they think the stones were molten at Pumapunku because of their look and feel. Stone that has been molten is much smoother that regular stone, which your photo seems to indicate, so the rocks probably were molten at some point.
posted by G at Wednesday, 5 October 2011 13:10:42 EST 1:10pm

untitled

reserve your judgement for when you go see an ancient monolithic structure. You might change your mind about who or what created it.
posted by packinachild at Monday, 3 October 2011 13:04:58 EST 1:04pm

Re: crap

Hi Moreno, thanks for stopping by.

I think you've misread my article. I never suggested that this plant actually existed. I'm questioning the entire notion that these rocks were put into place by melting them.

There's no evidence for that. It's pretty clear that the rocks were cut. We have the quarries from which they cut the rocks, complete with half cut rocks all over the place. The idea that these rocks were melted into place is just plain silly.
posted by Dumbass at Monday, 5 September 2011 19:57:19 EST 7:57pm

crap

it seems you have failed to explain how they managed to make those designs at puma punku in granite
trust me there's no [lant that softens rock,
in order to get that stone to maleable temperature you'd need a blowtorch ,normal fire just won't do
fail!
posted by moreno at Monday, 5 September 2011 18:36:57 EST 6:36pm

Great blog!

I discovered your blog while doing some Googling about Ancient Aliens, and I've really enjoyed reading several of your posts. Good stuff! I will certainly be back.

I actually just linked to you in a blog post of my own, so I thought I would share it: http://shanafaceblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/ancient-aliens-apophenia-and.html

And thanks for the hours of research and work that went into this. I would never have the patience!
posted by Shana at Thursday, 25 August 2011 01:39:43 EST 1:39am

Herp Derp

I really appreciate the research you put in to this, I googled Ancient Alien debunking on whim when I felt I was beginning to buy in to the idea. I wanted a second opinion and uhh, this is a good one lol. So thank you for some refreshing critical thinking.
posted by Chad at Thursday, 28 July 2011 20:38:39 EST 8:38pm

Underrated

Great job with the counterpoints on the show Dumbass! Personally, I totally enjoyed this program not just for it's enterainment value, as was pointed out in an earilier post, but for all the footage of historic locations world wide.

I am a firm believer that intelligent alien life MUST exsist elsewhere in the universe. But I'm a little cautious to say they've been helping us build cultural masterpieces. The question that BEGS to be asked is WHY? If I flew millions of light years to visit a place, the last thing I would do is WORK! LOL I'd ask the locals where the nearest bar is and kick back on a beach with a tall icy drink.

But the point I'd like to make here is this: What I gathered from this watching ALL 15 episodes of this program is Ancient Alien Theorist have an extreemly low opinion of their own species. Listen folks, primates are all very creative creatures. Humans are capable some amazing things. Just because ancient people didn't have the same technology we have today, doesn't mean they had NO technology. They may not have had iPhones and airplanes, but they had something more valuable - TIME! How did all these ancient people know so much about the stars? Spend your entire life looking at the night sky instead of a huge LED TV and you're bound to learn a thing or two about how things work in the universe. I'm not claiming to know how any of the great acheivements our ancestors accomplished got done, but I'd like to think they were some pretty sharp men & women with the ability to solve problems and make things happen when needed. So they may have sacrificed a few virgins... It's a learning process right? They just mastered lego's before they got the transistor working or resolved the big social issues like slavery.

I'm looking forward to what's going to be discovered in the underwater sites! I'll bet the conspiracy nuts will have a field day with that! And I'll be glued to the History Channell and this blog for the hours of entertainment pleasure the debate will bring! Thanks Dumbass!
posted by Jason2474 at Friday, 24 June 2011 11:03:02 EST 11:03am

DivineInterllect

I need to ask you if you are aware that ALL the Egyptian pyramids map out the star constellations?
If you are aware, then how did the ancients get it right? and how did their obelisks manage to point out the star that, now moved away, at that time. Did you know that this star was in that position 17250yrs ago?
Did you know that all pyramids around the world map out the constellations specifically pointing out a specif star that again was in position at that time only?
follow links
http://www.thehiddenrecords.com/
http://www.thehiddenrecords.com/newstarmaps3.htm

If you investigate this, you will dicover that it is no coincidence. How did our ancients do it if one thinks that aliens had no part in it?

feel free to mail me on divineinterllect1@gmail.com

Thanks

Nice discussion.
posted by DivineInterllect at Wednesday, 4 May 2011 06:16:05 EST 6:16am

DivineInterllect

I am NOT hoping you fail except really hope you could take the challenge. The only reason for this would be to discover that actual project planning, machinery, logistics is required and WILL be used to achieve it. My point is not to prove you wrong ( I don't want to) but rather to prove that it would take much more than primitive tools. Lets specifically attempt Puma Pumka blocks with the equidistant holes in the 1cm grove and the interlocking sections. I ask you, would you pull it off without machinery?

As for "less evolved" I am referring to our textbooks teaching and peoples perception that ancient man was less evolved, primitive. Biologically we all the same except refine over time and off-course with intellect as well. However I am referring to intelligence in this case.

It comes down to if we think man here on earth was capable of this. I say yes and that people give the ancients very little credit. There was certainly an advance civilization before Adam-man. However, where is their machinery knowing that it would take it to accomplish this? i.e. if you willing to attempt the challenge.

It could also come down do we think Human Aliens had a role in this? Is their evidence to support it? I say yes there is ample evidence that they visited earth a long time ago and still do.
posted by DivineInterllect at Wednesday, 4 May 2011 06:02:17 EST 6:02am

Re: DivineInterllect

Hey Divine, thanks for writing in.

You challenged me to see if I can recreate ancient feats of stone masonry with primitive tools. If I were to make the attempt and fail, do you think that would prove your case?

If we were unable to figure out how the ancient Chinese cut that 20 m wide channel through the Yulei mountain, would we be relegated to concluding that it must have been done by aliens?

Now, you keep on referring to these people as "less evolved". I'm hoping that you mean that that in a technological, rather than biological, sense. Because ancient civilizations were just as smart and creative as people today, and if you don't agree with that statement then that's a whole other discussion. So for the time being I'm going to assume you meant technologically.

Keeping that in mind, the Romans pre-dated the builders of Machu Picchu, and they didn't have any advanced stone cutting machinery any more than did the ancient pre-Colombians. But we know that the Romans built structures like the Aqueduct of Segovia, which used the same type of materials and construction methods used in Machu Picchu.

Do you believe that the ancient Romans were able to achieve this task without the help of aliens, but the ancient pre-Colombians weren't up to the task without advanced help? If that's your position, then I would very much like to hear you explain that point of view.
posted by Dumbass at Friday, 29 April 2011 06:37:47 EST 6:37am

DivineInterllect

Good day Dumbass

You claimed the following

“So Tsoukalos' best evidence for Ancient Aliens pretty much evaporates into nothingness when we look at it critically. It doesn't give me much hope for any of the evidence in the rest of the show, which by his own admission is bound to be even weaker and more insubstantial.”

Paradoxically you won’t ‘accept’ that God did it, nor that aliens did it, above all you seem certain that it was achieved ‘without’ advanced engineering/machinery. Something tells me you have no or little savvy about engineering or what it takes to accomplish complex structures. Take Dubai. We know that it requires teams of professionals to complete a project. Common sense and basic logic tells us that, therefore how can you or any deny the engineering ‘fact’? It most certainly was not achieved by stone tools nor is it possible for the human hand to achieve such accuracy ‘without’ the use of modern machinery. More so these lego-like blocks interlock and repeated in design. How can this be done with primitive tools?
It seems you are ‘determined’ to keep your opinion on Tsoukalos’s AA theory yet you continue by ‘admitting’ unanswered questions.

You stated…

“But there are still some unanswered questions about exactly how certain aspects of Incan construction were done, and I won't try to pretend like we've got everything solved here. But that doesn't mean that the only possible explanation is that the Incans must have had help from aliens. It just means that there are things that we don't know,”
“There's no reason for the statement "Aliens did it!" to be considered any more plausible than "God did it!". Dunn seems to accept that the aliens theory is more plausible, but he's failed to provide a single reason for that.”

“It's pretty impressive construction, and it was accomplished without the aid of modern machinery, or even any mortar to bind the stones together. So of course, we've got to ask ourselves: how is it possible for a civilization without modern machinery to cut these granite blocks so precisely that they can be built in this way?”
“I've got to admit though, that many of the blocks at Machu Picchu do seem to be more regular in size than those that we've seen so far:”
“As far as I can see, the expert in stonemasonry that they're using on the show simply doesn't agree with the show's conclusion that ancient people performed feats of stoneworking that modern stonemasons are unable to duplicate.”
“I would very much love to see these instances of stonemasonry that we are unable to duplicate.”

Suggestion:
Challenge your curiosity by setting up 2 teams, one with primitive tools and the other with the best possible machinery to duplicate Puma Punka. Knock yourself out. Once you’ve achieved this, answer your own question, bearing in mind our supposedly less evolved ancients.

I think you fail to see that credible engineers have stated the difficulty in achieving such tasks and that, as we taught, that ancient people are less evolved to achieve this. However evidence does point that they were but then how did they do it? Who assisted them? Could the legends or myths be actually telling the truth?
Is it so difficult to accept or assume that life, perhaps more advanced, exist in our galaxy? It would be vain to believe we are the only life in this infinite universe and that they could have visited us here. Someday we would do the same to a less advanced race in a nearby star system. How would they express our visitation in their history? Would it be any different to our ancient myths? I don’t think so.

Einstein was a wise man when he pointed out human stupidity. – stated on your blog.
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe”. –Albert Einstein

He should have replaced human stupidity with dumbasses. Lol
posted by DivineInterllect at Friday, 29 April 2011 05:53:43 EST 5:53am

untitled

These type of shows are should carry a disclaimer that it is for entertainment purposes only. Much like a child will draw an imaginary creature out of imagination and a lack of knowledge of the world, these ancient cultures did much the same thing.
There are ways of moving heavy objects quite simply using the basics of leverage and other primitive mechanical means. Fine powder will act a a lubricant and you can slide a heavy object over a flat surface. You can also use small pebbles or rocks to act as ball bearings. I am by no means an expert on stone shaping or moving giant structures but I have transported heavy objects around my house and property by employing simple techniques. I would venture to guess if scaled up they would react much int he same way.
posted by Texican at Thursday, 24 February 2011 14:24:38 EST 2:24pm

Re: Untitled

My understanding of the claims being made is that they suggest that these people couldn't have cut the granite blocks so precisely to lay them together like this without mortar.

I don't remember any mention of the size of the blocks from the documentary, and I'm not sure how that would be a factor. Even though many of these blocks are bigger than the ones at Segovia, they're certainly not unusually large or heavy. Other civilizations have managed far larger and heavier blocks.

Getting back to the Romans, they built the Temple of Jupiter at Baalbek, as I discussed in my fourth article on Ancient Aliens, dealing with construction. Those blocks weigh a thousand tons, two million pounds.

If the ancient Romans can handle those kinds of blocks without the help of alien technology, why should we doubt that the ancient Peruvians could handle comparatively tiny blocks that don't even weigh a single ton?
posted by Dumbass at Wednesday, 23 February 2011 12:18:23 EST 12:18am

untitled

When you used the Aqueduct of Segovia as your argument against the whole stone-melting method or whatever you'd like to call it, you ignored the size difference of the blocks. Even though both structures were built with granite without mortar, the blocks used to construct the aqueduct were significantly smaller in size, and therefore much easier to handle.
posted by Assdumb at Tuesday, 22 February 2011 22:16:05 EST 10:16pm

answer to Zach

Simply because if you want to attribute things to mythical entities without proof then you are facing a long line of possible candidates. I might as well say that Machu Pichu was built by Gnomes, by Intra-Terrestrials from beneath the Hollow World, by Lepricons, by Unicorns, by time travelling gay Nazis, by harnessing the energy of ghosts, by ancient yetis, by levitating monks... Sounds ridiculous, well you can't dismiss those either "just because you want to". But they are all as likely as the E.T. hypothesis since you have proof for none. That's why you need to work on what you can prove, not what you can simply conjure up in your mind. And that's why I think mister Dumbass is taking the wise option.

Peace.
posted by Espressofrog at Friday, 4 February 2011 03:52:27 EST 3:52am

untitled

I really enjoyed your response to this program. I can hardly watch the History channel anymore because of this garbage. I actually did suffer this episode because I enjoy ancient cultures and construction but was put off as soon as I heard "ancient aliens". Please keep up the good work in trying to bring some logic to this world.
A fun trick I play is to pretend all conspiracy/alien nuts who rant so vehemently in comments are actually just trolls doing it for the lulz. It seem to help stem the feeling that humanity is a lost cause.
posted by Fozzy at Wednesday, 12 January 2011 01:35:59 EST 1:35am

Re: Melody J Haislip

I'm afraid I haven't heard of it Melody, but I'd certainly be interested in seeing it if you find a picture.
posted by Dumbass at Wednesday, 5 January 2011 19:55:19 EST 7:55pm

Melody J Haislip

Fascinating article. I wonder if you could help me with something. I've been looking for ages for a picture or article of a huge, upside-down balancing rock in, I think, S. America, but no luck. Have you heard of it, too?
posted by http://pacificmelody.wordpress.com/ at Sunday, 2 January 2011 15:12:52 EST 3:12pm

Stone cutting...

I am fascinated by how ancient people could have built such impressive buildings. After some research, I came to the conclusion that it was possible with simple tools.

I saw a documentary once on Discovery where they recreated how Incas might have built their structures. I can't remember the name of the documentary. First, they convinced a village of around 100 people to help them pull a one-ton granit block. They managed with ease. Then, they showed how the locals can create extremely powerful ropes just by weaving grass together. This is what women traditionally do there over the winter. Believe it or not, these are so powerful they build bridges with these ropes. So, they had the technology to create ropes to pull the stones. Then, they have demonstrated how blocks can be made to "fit" together by just fitting a stick between two blocks to measure where one stone has a bump that is not present on the other. Then, they could smooth out the differences just by banging rocks on the bumps.

As for precise granite cutting, that is what I find the most compelling evidence for advanced technology, therefore I have looked at this in more detail.

For the aqueduct example, we think similar. Take a look at Mahabalipuram. It was built in India around the same time as Puma Punku. Very impressive carvings. As for replicating the precision of Puma Punku, take a look at Brihadeeswarar Temple. Absolutely amazing. One difference between Romans, Indians, and the bolivians is that both Rome and India had iron tools. I believe Brihadeeswarar Temple demonstrates that with iron tools, skilled stone masons can pretty much carve extremely precise and beautiful shapes.

Bolivians, however, might did not have iron tools, as far as we know. So, the question is, could you cut granite without iron tools?

There is actually a method to measure hardness of minerals, using the Mohs scale. Higher is harder. Granite can be up to 7 Mohs hard, the hardness of quartz. It is very hard to cut.

That said, there are records that Egyptians have used copper saws to cut granite. Also, sand is harder than granite. By adding sand and rubbing it against the stone, one might also be able to cut it. Also, sandstone is used to make grindstones that are used to sharpen steel. Sandstone might also cut granite, as individual sand particles will be harder than granite. Eventually, of course, sandstone will disintegrate, as it is malleable. Puma Punku quarries had sandstone (see Wikipedia).

That said, there are rocks that are harder than granite. One example is emery. Emery will cut granite with little problem. I have no evidence that Puma Punku had emery, however I find it easier to believe that they found some hard rock somewhere in the Andes than laser cutters by aliens. There is no reason to assume that ancient stone cutters were unable to find rocks that they could use to cut granite efficiently.

Finally, however unlikely, it is possible that some ancient trading boat made it to America, bringing iron tools with them, and finally settling with the natives. However unlikely, it is still much more probable that the "aliens" came from a different continent, rather than a different planet or galaxy.

In conclusion, ancient man could build impressive monuments that seem impossible at first. However, once the basics of the manufacturing are worked out, the rest is simply a matter of dedication and time. We really are an impressive species on our own, and did not need aliens to figure out how to carve stone...
posted by Gabe at Sunday, 26 December 2010 00:40:33 EST 12:40am

untitled

Nice points on this one. I posted a large comment on general ideas on the theory earlier which i still question. . but the stuff from Tsoukalos is way off the wall in this program. I guess they need to create 1 hour episodes and fill them with alleged proofs to create content.

Could you please post some stuff up on general theory. Significance of multiple cultures using Gods decent from the heavens (space) independently. I mean there are some cultural tales about importance of the earth but have you found more of that. I mean i know about spirits in the ground, etc Gods arising from the ground and doing battle? I can think of posiden and hades. . but it seems that most cultural stuff i can remember uses the earth as a punishment or a low life area for the gods.

Or how about Bizarre concern with specific points in the night sky (allegedly) occuring in multiple places. Battles amongst them and winners and losers. I get the idea of poetic license. . but am curious how poetic license draws very similar conclusions.

Or Understanding of plantary movment and advanced calendar ideas and dates. I mean i get some logical ideas on some other stuff like a pyramid is a stable stucture and likely to be built. . but why the obsession with the shafts and tunnels and areas of 'the heavens'

I supposed will start to do my own research. . all this stuff is new to me. . but i find it quite interesting. Keep posting more stuff up I like it.
posted by Curious at Saturday, 25 December 2010 01:18:52 EST 1:18am

untitled

Zach he's discrediting the evidence put forth not the notions. The idea that aliens came down and influenced ancient civilizations is certainly cool and maybe even possible, but the physical, tangible evidence points to a more earthly conclusion. Take a logic class and learn about logic fallacies. You will find that they are rife within this program
posted by Peer at Thursday, 16 December 2010 18:57:26 EST 6:57pm

Re: Untitled

Hey Zach, thanks for stopping by.

I think you're a little bit confused about where the burden of proof lies here. If you want to convince me that aliens visited humanity in ancient times, then you need to show me the evidence.

All I'm doing here is showing how none of the evidence in this episode is in any way good quality or convincing evidence of anything.
posted by Dumbass at Wednesday, 8 December 2010 11:42:45 EST 11:42am

untitled

"We can't attribute everything we don't know to some unknown force like aliens just because we want to."

so why can you discredit the notions just because you want to? you can't have your cake and eat it too, dumbass
posted by Zach at Wednesday, 8 December 2010 11:08:02 EST 11:08am

untitled

you're a dumbass, that's for sure
posted by zach at Wednesday, 8 December 2010 11:05:23 EST 11:05am

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