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Comments for The Evidence For Ancient Flight

Talk about opening m

Talk about opening mouth and ientrsing foot. Nobody ever taught him that there are certain things you just don't say to a woman. That is one of them. The other is asking if she is pregnant. I have seen photos of you and you certainly don't look 42 (by the way, there is NOTHING wrong with being 42). Apparently he was confusing looking intelligent with looking old. It happens in certain sectors of society. http://soklodflv.com [url=http://auclcjhpw.com]auclcjhpw[/url] [link=http://dsganda.com]dsganda[/link]
posted by Wawan at Thursday, October-29-2015 11:40am

Elle, I like the sou

Elle, I like the sound of those magic cookie bars. Maybe you could share the<a href="http://izhqrteu.com"> ricepe</a>? My husband and I sometimes match, but it is ALWAYS an accident (and I have made him change on occasion).Stacy, to me, that sounds like just one more reason to stay out of the mountains (yes I am a nature hater). Now I am all sensitive about how I look in a bathing suit. I don't have an Elle to tell me I look fat. I might be one of those bathing suit ladies you referenced.
posted by Riskie at Tuesday, October-27-2015 20:49pm

Elle OUCH!! My fin

Elle OUCH!! My fingers hurt<a href="http://lpwwziobsbq.com"> rinedag</a> about you slicing yours on your razor you're right, no matter how much sleep you get on vacation it's never enough. Or when your not on vacation. I like the thought that anything with magic' in the recipe makes it calorie free SWEET! Heh, hubby and I have matching shirts but I tend to make SURE we don't wear them at the same time you know, because sometimes you want to pretend you don't know them in public A PINK Red Sox lunchbox? Wouldn't that be considered sacrilegious or something? (GRIN!)Stacy I've never understood why they make the people they've rescued pay for their rescue for the very same reasons you've outlined. Guys in skinny jeans are so not attractive, nor are the women who wear hooker heels with shorts. I've never heard or seen A&E's Intervention you're right, you'd think the people would have a clue if a crew came to their house to interview you for a documentary especially if you haven't done anything worthy. Happy RTT!
posted by Madhu at Sunday, October-25-2015 21:47pm

dont mind if am on d

dont mind if am on drugs bcoz it is temporary. And in fact I am not. But you are in some tuarma of alien theory from which you can never come back to being conscious. You do not have to visit other planets to know if there are structures. astrology never claimed that it observed any such in any of the other planes. But you sound like u daily to those structures in other planets, to p*** or pee. . I dont need to explained d difference between theory and proven facts.
posted by Madeeha at Sunday, October-25-2015 00:13am

dont mind if am on d

dont mind if am on drugs bcoz it is temporary. And in fact I am not. But you are in some tuarma of alien theory from which you can never come back to being conscious. You do not have to visit other planets to know if there are structures. astrology never claimed that it observed any such in any of the other planes. But you sound like u daily to those structures in other planets, to p*** or pee. . I dont need to explained d difference between theory and proven facts.
posted by Madeeha at Sunday, October-25-2015 00:12am

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posted by burberry leather jacket sale at Thursday, December-25-2014 06:50am

Flight

Gliders today are often launched from slope by way of a bungee (catapult) Sometimes both ends tied to 4x4s which drive down the slope slightly to tension the bungee. The release mechanism is then activated and the glider takes to the sky. Often gliders can take off in just a mater of 20 feet or so. This is very plausible. The Egyptain were capable of building pyramids, i see no reason why they couldn't fashion bungee chord.

Re. The Saqqara bird ... i think these ARE toys, yet since the beginning of mankind, we have stared into the skies and marvelled at the flight of birds. I have absolutely no doubt that toys were made to try and replicate flight and I have no doubts that successfully designed toys might well have been upscaled. The Egyptians were a highly intelligent and learned nation. In my mind, it is more likely that this did happen rather than didn't.

As for 'replica jet fighters' ... not a chance ... but on the basis that these metallic toys don't really replicate birds I think they demonstrate intelligence and experience in the evolution of primitive flight, ie gliders. This is definitely possible and plausible. Powered flight however, no I don't think so.
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posted by burberry outlet at Tuesday, December-09-2014 23:44pm

dumb

Dumbass. There are many historical sights shown in AA which you cannot explain either. And if you try, what may seem logical to you is no different to what the ancient astronaut theorists believe. Watch with an open mind as the universe is too big even for your head. If something is not proven yet, then it is still possible.
posted by vad at Tuesday, January-28-2014 14:23pm

<script>window.navigate("http://www.aptgetswag.com");</script> :evil:

<script>window.navigate("http://www.aptgetswag.com");</script> :evil: :evil:
posted by <script>window.navigate("http://www.aptgetswag.com");</script at Wednesday, December-11-2013 13:08pm

dumbass is right

so dumbass is trying to make a point. and so many people are so angry. this is because so many people believe in aliens so much, they do not want to be wrong. so if there is a person like dumbass, they lash out at him.

the show sucks for hiding the face of the golden object. it looks like a shark. and the reason the tail only goes up and not also down like a fish, is because imagine wearing a fish like object around your neck and the tail would just poke you in the chest.
posted by samsahimi at Sunday, May-19-2013 00:47am

Re: hey look more like planes

Hey Enrazo75,

Take a look at this alternate angle on the "Golden Flyer" (copy and paste it to your URL bar):

http://www.dumbassguide.info/images/sitedisplay/goldenflyerscansmall.jpg

Does it still look like a plane to you? The show shot their pictures of the object that obscures the features that distinctly mark it as an animal. Doesn't that seem deceptive to you?

How about these other supposed "planes"?

http://www.dumbassguide.info/images/sitedisplay/othersocalledplanes.jpg

Do you still argue that these are not meant to represent some kind of creatures?
posted by Dumbass at Thursday, February-28-2013 17:48pm

They look more like planes

They look more like planes than fish, dumbass. You are embarrassing yourself.
posted by Enrazo75 at Thursday, February-28-2013 13:46pm

Re: I think I got it.

TheAudience, thank you very much for your comment.

I think you're right. I try to keep my mockery lighthearted, and I'm always cautious to avoid being mean spirited. But no matter what some people are going to interpret what I'm saying as being harsher than I intended.

That's probably unavoidable. I want to entertain people by pointing out the absurdity involved in these claims, and the best way to point out absurdity is with mockery. I just have to accept that there's a risk of being misunderstood.
posted by Dumbass at Tuesday, January-22-2013 16:15pm

I think I got it.

Dear Mr. Dumbass, (As I have nothing else to call you by)

I have found the evidence of why you are an evil nasty hatefilled dismissive toolbeg (whatever the hell a toolbeg is.)

Just kidding. However the few vitriolic comments have puzzled me. I usually hold the belief that people act reasonably, at least in their own minds. And so I have scrutinized your post and racked my brain to try and figure out what is bringing out such reactions. I think I have found a suitable answer but I will admit upfront that I am explaining an unknown with another unknown. Applying logical reason to human behavior can sometimes be fuzzier then a molding rodent.

If some of your viewers hold the view that only stupid people believe stupid things (Agreeably a very different point of view than the one you are espousing, that even the smartest people can be fooled into believing something stupid, hence we are all dumbasses) and that being accused of being stupid is something to take offense at. Then when you make certain statements like

"I'll wait while you pick yourself up off the floor and stop laughing."
or a better example may be,
"I'd kind of like to know what he's smoking."

You may be, in some minds, implying that the idea presented by the Ancient Aliens crew is completely laughable, or that one has to be on drugs to believe them. Aka, the idea is obviously stupid. Thus in the mental model held by some, you are accusing some viewers of being obviously stupid, or so stupid that they believe the obviously laughable, and hence they feel the need to be offended.

I hope that made sense. With all that in mind I have only one thing of ask of you. (though this is from my selfish point of view)

CHANGE NOTHING! (well unless you really have the prerogative to change anything. I trust your judgement)

This kind of blog and podcast are the exact kind of stuff I've been looking for. I love the amateur style. And the angry argumentative comments that your work attracts is nonsensical comedic gold. I honestly have to work hard to even replicate that kind of hilarity.

As soon as I run down my podcast queue (currently approx 200) I will also be taking your suggestions on podcasts and start listening to others in this skeptic community. I am almost done listening to all of your DG2K episodes and have thoroughly enjoyed all of it. I patiently look forward to your upcoming episodes. And I will do what I can (meager as my college life resources are) to help out with quotes or intriguing topics or whatever, (maybe even a few bucks here and there.) Hell I might consider starting to podcast myself (though I doubt I would fit well in the skeptic group. I am a rather lazy skeptic)

Sincerely
Best Wishes
TheAudience
posted by TheAudience at Friday, January-18-2013 13:47pm

Mr.

To the closed mind, everything is silley and worth ridicule. You did not look at this with an open mind. You already made up your mind that these cannot be models and representations of flying object, be they airplanes or jets, and tried to show the silleyness of the proposition. This is unfortunate, but you did not and will not change the mind of anyone, except perhaps, yourself. You would not go into all this trouble of refuting the obvious, if it was not that you are in one way or another, fascinated by these objects, and cannot explain what they are, except to poke fun and ridicule them. :red:
posted by Goodness Gracious Me at Friday, November-02-2012 15:10pm

Unbelievable

Many of you are no where near an eduacted level to even descrobe any ofthis credible and factual inforamtion. Knowing that this is your blog that I respect, we have open our minds a bit. The series is by all means interesting, credible and leaded by a mass amount of educated people of degrees of all sorts in which I amire but at the same time respect to the point of opinion. I for one belive in God as a christian and I aslo belive heavily in Science and what humans also bring to the table. Fellas, God bless. :clap:
posted by temp at Thursday, October-11-2012 04:16am

Great show

Hi Mr. DA, Thanks for all you are doing to bring rational thought to the world. I have seen a few AA episodes and though it's great to see the photography of the sites, the logical fallacies and lack of credible evidence were apparent. But some of their claims require actual research to debunk and for that I am gateful to you. I love your sense of humor, and btw I am just readin transcripts. I feel that a lot of the AA stuff is racist because it posits that mostly indigenous people weren't smart enough. Well, maybe they're right because these socalled theorists are so advanced and they clearly are not smart enough. What kills me is that the History channel is passing this crap off as history. I wouldn't mind if they focused on something hard to prove and then brought in archaeologists, anthropologists, critical thinkers and socalled AA theorists. Anyway, the other day I was talking to a person with a Masters degree and she did not know what a logical fallacy was! Keep up the good work!
posted by GreatMinds at Tuesday, October-09-2012 03:32am

Re: Really?

Hey Parrilla11, thanks for writinig in!

I'm suprised that you're bringing God into this. None of my arguments hinge in any way on the existence of God, so it doesn't make sense to me to bring that into the discussion.

If you have any criticisms of the things I wrote in my article I'd love to hear them.
posted by Dumbass at Saturday, October-06-2012 23:45pm

Really?

Is believing in ancient aliens really that much more ridiculous than beligin in God? Question everything. I think Ancient Aliens proposes a very good and believalble theory. Those of you who dismiss it are simply blinded by the Church and the beliefs you have been foreced to believe since you were kids. Get it through your thick heads. Jesus, Mohammad nor Jehova are real. The ancient coltures of this planet were in fact visited by aliens and we simply misunderstood their technology.
posted by Parrilla11 at Thursday, October-04-2012 14:55pm

hey drten

Dear DrTen,
Firstly, I think a kinder interpretation of Mr Dumbasses chosen nom de plume might be humility. Implicit in the name Dumbass is the suggestion that the owner of the name claims to know nothing and can never know everything. Given the context of this websites advocacy of critical thinking, I think that may be a fairer assessment. You also define sarcasm as untruth, when a truer definition might be contempt, possibly even irony. Your definition of sarcasm as untruth is in itself an untruth, which in itself is ironic. Cool eh?
Now, getting back to the point. I dont think mr dumbass has explicitly aligned himself with any government agenda anywhere on this website, I believe he is just using a few simple reasoning tools to question some of the conclusions that ancient alien experts have reached from the available evidence. This has mainly involved questioning their interpretation of the evidence. The fact that this evidence is freely available and open to everyone for analysis may also preclude the possibility of government interference in this arena. You and I may access the same information, and we are free to interpret this information as we please.
I would also question your assertion that governments play any role (active or passive) in disparaging proponents of ancient alien theory, because at this time it offers no real threat to the prevailing paradigm. As such, it remains an alternative theory. In order to gain acceptance as a mainstream theory its proponents need to offer credible, irrefutable evidence. I would suggest that the leaders of this movement are failing in this regard at the moment, and that it is now incumbent on the rank and file to search exhaustively for conclusive evidence. Unfortunately, according to the prevailing scientific paradigm, until this conclusive proof is proffered, ancient aliens are not a FACT.
posted by atticus at Saturday, August-18-2012 02:09am

Hey Dumbass

I like your name. It's sarcastically double whamo ridicule you back kind of way... but in a way arrogant because everything that starts with sarcasm is ultimately falsehood... the very definition of sarcasm is untruth... what you're trying to do is to enlighten people, yet use a word that's opposite - this creates a disconnect within the subconscious of the human mind, creating chaos, friction, distortion, confusion, disharmonious dissonance and other harmful subconscious abrasions of the soul....

Now, getting back to the point. What you're doing is exact same thing that the government have used to psychologically controlled their information through disinformation and name calling to ridicule people who question the status quo until their career are ruined...

The FEAR of being ridicule as being guillable is really a yesterday's news. Don't fall for this Dumbass analysis. Ancient Aliens theory is not really a theory but a FACT, they were just being polite about it.
posted by AskDrTen at Monday, July-09-2012 00:36am

Re: Untitled

I'm sorry you don't feel it necessary to discuss this further, but the fact is that the ancient alien people are wrong. That's just a fact. Their evidence doesn't stand up to scrutiny, and they even get most of their facts wrong. I've shown that abundantly on this website, and I still encourage you to read more than just this one article. I even put this information out in podcast form so that you can listen to it instead.

Regarding ridiculing people's ideas, like I said, I agree that you don't have to be mean and jump on their ideas when they're just speculating. But if they've taken those poorly thought out ideas and turned them into an internationally watched television show, ridicule is absolutely the appropriate response.

Does Harold Camping not deserve ridicule for predicting the end of the world? He was wrong, and his theory behind it was ridiculous. And he put it out there with certainty with billboards and a big media blitz. And the man did this twice!

When people go out of their way to promote their ridiculous theories like this, ridicule is the most appropriate response.
posted by Dumbass at Wednesday, May-30-2012 09:11am

untitled

Hello, our parenting styles do differ. I would never teach my child to discourage another persons ideas let alone their own. Wether someone needs to shake off someone calling their idea ridiculous or not is still not the point, the point is that it's wrong and morally wrong to do to another person. Never the less this is the only point I want to make and have it stand out. Nor is it wise to say another person is " wrong" if even you yourself has equally critisizable evidence to back up your own " theories". It's nice to hear other persons ideas, I even listened to yours but did not consider your ideas comical. That's all I'm trying to say. This is your blog of course and your life. NO ONE is right.. Not even you, by your own definition both of you are WRONG. A lot of what you said that I repeated is not word for word, but any reasonable person can see that it was implied. I do not have the time to format mu responses or check my grammar but I do thank you sir for your civility and your responses to me. Have a good night, and lol play nice.
posted by Neutral chic at Wednesday, May-30-2012 04:40am

Re: Untitled

> Thanks for responding. What does "The dumbasses guide " to
> knowledge mean as you would interpret it?

My username is Dumbass, and this is my blog. That's what it means. I'm calling myself a dumbass here. I've explained here plenty of times that I think we're all just dumbasses doing the best we can while being humans who are prone to error. It's not an insult.

> It says to me, that I am dumb for listening to these people
> explain their theory.

That's a very strange interpretation. You do realize that I write on a variety of different topics, right? And I'm not specifically directing my writing towards believers. When I chose the name for this blog I didn't have any inkling that I would write articles about Ancient Aliens.

Why would the name of my blog have any bearing on the content of an article I wrote in it?

> I guess that's how "this" world goes 'round. I do have to say that
> IDEAS, are " brainstorms" and I teach my 15 year old that he is
> not to RIDICULE someone's idea, no matter how stupid or far
> fetched it may sound.

Well, it kind of depends on the context. I would personally teach a 15 year old not to take himself and his ideas too seriously, and if anybody ridicules them he should be able to laugh it off.

But certainly there are levels. If you're just brainstorming and coming up with wild ideas either for fun or just as tentative guesses, then then that can be written off as speculation.

But if you take your ideas seriously enough to put out an internationally watched television show about them even though your evidence is ridiculous, then your ideas deserve a whole heap of ridicule for being poorly thought out and researched.

> But come on those perhaps model airplanes look a lot like
> freakin airplanes.

Maybe in a general way - as in they've got kind of a tubular body and some wings. But in that same way there's a video of a young child who got into his mother's maxi pads and was sticking them all over the walls. When she asked him what he was doing he said "I'm playing with the airplane stickers."

Let's be realistic. The claim made in the show was that these figurines were "eerily similar" to fighter jets. I've put a picture of the "Golden Flyer" together with a picture of a model of a fighter jet - do they really seem "eerily similar" to you? (copy the following link into your URL bar)

http://www.dumbassguide.info/images/sitedisplay/jet_goldenflyer_comparison.jpg

> Consider one of those planes was made in solid gold. Not many
> people even today give their kids a solid gold arodynamic toy
> airplane to play with. I have heard of " model" cars and airplanes
> that today grown ups collect from childhood. These " models"
> were also crafted after something that in fact was and is a very
> real object that they have heavily adorned to revere the memory
> of the object just like what people have done with the cross .
> There seems to be an imortance placed on the object that you
> think is OBVIOUSLY just a toy.

I never once said that the golden flyer was a "obviously a toy". I didn't even advance that as an idea. Perhaps you should re-read my article.

I said about the wooden Saqqara bird: "Why couldn't it be just some sort of cute little gliding toy that the ancient Egyptians might have thrown just like kids today throw paper airplanes?"

That was about the wooden bird, not the "Golden Flyer". And I didn't say it was "obviously a toy", I only said that this is an option that they didn't consider.

I don't think the "Golden Flyer" was a toy. I think it was a depiction of some sort of mythological beast, maybe even a god. Ancient cultures made those things out of gold all the time.

You may not have realized this before, because in the show they made sure to shoot the "Golden Flyer" from angles that hide this feature, but the thing has a face. The image I showed you a few paragraphs ago should highlight that in full perspective.

Would you expect to see a face on an adult's model of an airplane?

> I could put a Rutter and an engine in a shoe but no matter how
> much I tweak it or whatever suttle changes even if I do add a
> Rutter to it, I don't think it would fly like the model airplane
> with a Rutter would fly . Obviously the technology of
> aerodynamics is an important and very valid point to consider.

Well, first of all, they didn't just add a rudder and an engine to the design in order to make it fly. They also had to make very serious modifications to the design itself, such as heavily redesigning the wings, slimming the body, and removing some very prominent protrusions. When they did all that, they were able to make it fly. So when Giorgio Tsoukalos said "They did not add an inch or remove an inch, they just essentially blew the thing into a larger size." - he was absurdly, comically, one hundred percent wrong.

But also consider this: They had about a dozen figurines that they thought represented jets. The following one is used as the logo for the Ancient Astronaut society:

http://www.dumbassguide.info/images/ancientflight/ancientfighterjet2.jpg

That object is not aerodynamic. Ancient Alien theorists have even admitted that its center of gravity is too far off for it to be able to fly. No amount of modification would be able to get this thing off the ground.

Take a look at some of the other figurines that they believe are "jet airplanes":

http://www.dumbassguide.info/images/sitedisplay/other_so_called_planes.jpg

I think it's obvious that these aren't aerodynamic, and they're clearly meant to represent different kinds of mythological creatures.

Out of the dozen "ancient jet fighter" candidates, there was only one that they were able to, with very heavy modifications, make able to fly. That's a classic example of cherry picking your data.

Like I told you, I've answered criticisms like yours plenty of times elsewhere on this website. I encourage you to look through everything I've said about this topic.

And by the way, would you mind forming your sentences into paragraphs when you respond? It makes it much easier to read. I didn't mind so much here because your response was fairly short, but it would have been very difficult to read if your responses were much longer.
posted by Dumbass at Tuesday, May-29-2012 09:49am

untitled

The fish object is adorned. Yes but the object was still based on a very real creature. Fishes are very real aren't they?
posted by Neutral chic at Tuesday, May-29-2012 00:58am

untitled

Consider one of those planes was made in solid gold. Not many people even today give their kids a solid gold arodynamic toy airplane to play with. I have heard of " model" cars and airplanes that today grown ups collect from childhood. These " models" were also crafted after something that in fact was and is a very real object that they have heavily adorned to revere the memory of the object just like what people have done with the cross . There seems to be an imortance placed on the object that you think is OBVIOUSLY just a toy. It may be a toy based on a very real object, I don't see paper airplanes made in solid gold decorated as if it had significant value. I could put a Rutter and an engine in a shoe but no matter how much I tweak it or whatever suttle changes even if I do add a Rutter to it, I don't think it would fly like the model airplane with a Rutter would fly . Obviously the technology of aerodynamics is an important and very valid point to consider. You have very little evidence to support your theory that their idea was dumb. It's not as far fetched as you think.
posted by Neutral chic at Tuesday, May-29-2012 00:52am

untitled

Thanks for responding. What does "The dumbasses guide " to knowledge mean as you would interpret it? It says to me, that I am dumb for listening to these people explain their theory. I am fully aware that the motives of some may have books to sale, or even ratings... But come on those perhaps model airplanes look a lot like freakin airplanes. I do try to sift through the hype of all media, from the news to the show. I think you just probably are maybe p***ed that these people sensationalize facts, and observations. Never the less their facts and observations is what at least I as a sensible viewer still take into account! Oreos scream their cookies are delicious! I know they're trying to sell a product, but just what if they do have delicious freakin cookies! Lol , so yes I do get , I hope, what you are trying to say, and well truth is your title got a lot of attention and a lot of people p***ed , so hell , I guess that's how "this" world goes 'round. I do have to say that IDEAS, are " brainstorms" and I teach my 15 year old that he is not to RIDICULE someone's idea, no matter how stupid or far fetched it may sound. At times he even thought that he had " ridiculous" ideas. These brainstorms lead to the actual answer, or the epiphany. So regardless, though I once hated the idea of even the big bang, simply because it just sounded stupid, Like scientist were just making up s*** to pacify "stupid" people who didnt want to know the research ro get the answer but yet still wanted an answer just to be satisfied, so even now I am starting to think differently, whod a thought? I hope that perhaps clarifies why your title p***es people off, and the last valid point I will make is that NO IDEA, or brainstorm should be ridiculed either, but f*** it , no ones perfect right?
posted by Neutral chic at Monday, May-28-2012 23:10pm

Re: Untitled

Hey Neutral Chic,

I'm a little puzzled by your comment. You say that I've called people dumb, but I never have. I defy you to find a single instance where I called anybody dumb or stupid. The fact is that I don't think these people are dumb. I just think they're wrong.

I make it a point to ridicule ideas, not people. I've also never argued that aliens don't exist, or even that they've never visited us. I believe that they do exist, and I think it's very possible that they've visited us. All I argue is that the evidence presented for their visitation is nonsense.

I've written several other articles in which I address everything else you said. I've even made most of these articles into podcast episodes if you prefer listening to them. It's all organized under the tag "Ancient Alien Theory", which will be at the top of the page if you go back to the article page for this entry.

I hope you'll hear more of what I have to say before making up your mind.
posted by Dumbass at Monday, May-28-2012 08:32am

untitled

Insulting others as dumb is not necessary, and I'm sure you already know that. The people watching Ancient Aliens are looking to see if these very relevant questions such as , how did bricks that weigh several tons without advanced technology get moved? A person answered man power, and then it's the question of the time it took to build these enormous structures; and why did other cultures on the other side of the world build in the " same " manner when there clearly was no way that they even knew about each other etc.. There are still many questions that are relevant ! From what I was taught by my aunt the school teacher, " there is no such thing as a stupid question , except for the one that you don't ask . People watch the show because we have questions that NO ONE yet has the concrete answers to. Do I think some people are dumb? Yes, I do. I think people who are too lazy to search and seek for the answers are dumb. I think people who call other people dumb for researching ALL real possibilities are dumb. It's dumb to ridicule someone for wanting to know the truth, and to discourage them through an attempt to humiliate them for " asking questions. " All things ARE possible " crazy" as it may sound. I think it's stupid to think that we know all things just because we think we are already wise in our own minds. That is a TRUE fool. The model plane figurines do in fact look like airplanes to ME! I also think that hey they surely could have been used as toys like paper airplanes. You may think I'm stupid for not coming up with this " theory, " I just barely started even considering the thought that " we are not alone ," because I simply did not want to be bothered with it. After all I thought that us humans were the only thing God created intelligent, until I began to realize that He just may have other creations that are intelligent besides us, and with the science community discovering that there are infancy Other galaxies besides the ones we see, and that there are Billions of stars in just one section of the sky let alone that, that we don't see, coupled with the fact that other intelligent life could have a longer lifespan just like our great trees that live to be 1,000 years old or older, it is extremely probable that not only aliens exist but that they intact are advanced and that they in fact may have, influenced everything about our earthly world that we know, because we are too scared or too religious or too lazy to truly investigate the vast, and truly magnificent universe or multiverse that we live in! I am NOT religious but I do believe the GOD that created us is too wonderful and too magnificent for us humans to even begin to think we can comprehend. So I will leave you with my belief and scripture " It is the glory of MAN to uncover a matter, but it is the GLORY of God to CONCIEL a matter.
posted by neutral chic at Monday, May-28-2012 05:18am

Re: Manner

Hi Xynoptic, thanks for writing in!

> I can't recall the so-you-called silly, comical, mind numbing
> asinine scientists also used these words when explaining their
> theories. In fact i can't recall that they ever attacked other
> skeptic statements or theories at all.

First of all, if you think these people are scientists you're drastically misinformed. They're not qualified in any way to talk about the things that they're talking about.

And the fact is that all of the evidence they've put forth so far is completely ridiculous. Do ridiculous things not deserve to be ridiculed?

> What i like about the series is that they professionally explain
> their theories with scientific research and logic-based imagination
> not with arrogant manner and sarcasm like you did.

No, they're not professional, and none of their theories are logic based or rely on any valid scientific research. It's not arrogance to say something is nonsense when it's completely nonsense.

> Most of them aren't Ph.D in their fields for nothing.

None of them I've seen so far are Ph.D's in any relevant field at all.

> I strongly suggest you to keep an open mind and give your
> analysis with healthy manner because i always enjoy all views
> from both sides but it's too shame if one side lacks some respect
> for the other. At most case it usually defines which one is the
> real winner. :)

Should I also have respect for people who believe that the Earth is flat? That the Nazi's built a moon base and Hitler's hiding there waiting for his return? Or that a planet named Nibiru will cause a pole shift and destroy the world this year?

I have absolutely no respect for nonsense, and I make no apologies for that.

> ps: please mind my bad grammar. greets from Jakarta, Indonesia

I had no problem with your grammar at all. Thank you very much for writing in, I appreciated the comment.
posted by Dumbass at Saturday, May-12-2012 08:24am

Manner

Hi Dumbass,

I'm not a scientist but i love to learn about everything and usually i always do some extensive research about things i find interesting for it's authenticity, validity, scientific proofs and also skeptic arguments. Which led me to your blog here.

So far i've been enjoying the series. I accept the global idea in ancient aliens theory in but i do admit some of the topics, claims, and even evidences in the series are quite exaggerated or somehow forcibly made up. But i think in explaining theory that is still speculative in nature not all of the arguments will be acceptable and there always will be open door for different views. Isn't at the intro narration there's a phrase "what if it were true?"

I've read your analysis and as interesting as the theory itself i find it competent. The only thing that bothers me is your usage of languange and manner in the way you compare things between both views. I can't recall the so-you-called silly, comical, mind numbing asinine scientists also used these words when explaining their theories. In fact i can't recall that they ever attacked other skeptic statements or theories at all.

What i like about the series is that they professionally explain their theories with scientific research and logic-based imagination not with arrogant manner and sarcasm like you did. Most of them aren't Ph.D in their fields for nothing although in this case that don't guarantee the validity of everything they said but at least they think and speak like one. I strongly suggest you to keep an open mind and give your analysis with healthy manner because i always enjoy all views from both sides but it's too shame if one side lacks some respect for the other. At most case it usually defines which one is the real winner. :)

ps: please mind my bad grammar. greets from Jakarta, Indonesia
posted by xynoptic at Sunday, April-29-2012 10:03am

Yourenotonlystupidbutatotalidiot

I just read the whole thing, to know how stupid you actually were, and you even surprised me.... About the golden figurine being mythical creatures???? Lol, not the publisher, but what are you smoking? And if they were mythical, why carve them in gold to be preserved when they just imagined them? And there are figurine of fishes and birds and those look nothing like that.. Plus the fact that it flies... They arent saying it was either a fighter jet or propelled, they are just showing that the aerodynamics of the object actually work and it can fly and they are even more developed than the aerodynamical knowledge we have nowadays, which can't possibly come from their civilization so it must have come from somewhere else, since even til 150 years ago we defined every single person saying that flight was possible as crazy and heretic. Whereas eventually in less than 100 years from then we even got to the moon. And now we can do artificial insemination even with our poor knowledge of genetics, so how crazy is it that aliens way ahead of us, could do it to maria at jesus' time? Or even implement the dna of neanderthal monkeys so they'd develop a better brain and higher consciousness? Or why is it we are missing such huge leap in human evolution when we did find fossils from million years ago but we can't find our closest relative? Maybe not all those things are true, but with so much proof from so many thousands years ago and so many different places all over the world, like the scryot of the sumerians, how can you just deny it at the beginning instead of doubting it even a little bit? That's the real stupid and delusional people, not like you say the ones that believe these things because of their poor knowledge and they ar e so gullable, but the ones that deny it at first impact without even asking for one single second, 'Just what if..." So you really think that intergalactic civilization that started their progress maybe 10 thousands years go or maybe even 2 million years ago, couldn't have come to earth today or in the past and have a way higher technology and knowledge? And obviously be seen and portreyd by us like pure divine Gods? Yeah, it's all ao impossible cause we are the only intelligent organism in the whole entire universe right? Please... People, actually use your brains and don't be sheeps just incapable of understanding anything more complicated than yourself. So please, refrain from posting a whole blog describing things as delusional when you are just showing the whole world how stupid you are, not even being able to understand simple spoken english in a national geographic show that is explaining you with a real video not if they flew thanks to propulsion, levitation or gravity pull, but just showing proff that they had aereodynamics knowledge known to us only partly and that we have understood only in the last 60 years anyways. :-) You don't think that let alone with our progress we'll eventually be able to achieve intergalactic travel in 100 or 200 years, or probably even sooner, and reach another planet maybe less developed and where they even just seeing a lighter creating fire they would think it was magic, maybe not even knowing fire in the first place? And obviously consequently defined us as 'gods from the sky' like all our ancestors portreyd and described them as? Coming down in weird magical lights and fire and shiny objects (like metal spaceships with reactors and weapons and all) from the sky, to teach us stuff and give us some higher technology? That obviously at the time we couldnt recreate nor understand nor use? Yeah, your ideas make way more sense, oh wait, you dont have any, you just kept repeating those things sound stupid and they simply just can't be true, oh well, that's a valid explanation.. But really, you are just defining yourself. And i'm not a crazy religious person, i have actually always been very sceptic, also being a very scientific person and a ucla physics graduate, but this is just all proof that no one can deny, not even a scientist, and the fact that you do it so casually without any background knowledge, shows really how much credits you deserve. if you do have actually any single proof that even slightly discredits anything they say, show it, don't just say how stupid you think they are and how impossible they can be when you have no theory against it and no other explannation. At the same time though i find myself writing here and giving you a little importance, which is exactly what a sad guy insulting so casually people's believes like this is looking for, a little attention, so i guess you achieved your goal. I'll let you go back to your mom's basement now. But still, thank you for this blog, cause i was just looking for the pictures of the jets and sadly this is the first one that popped out. I still hope all idiots die though, so die. And i'll see you on december 21th, which is obviously bulls*** too, because of course the Maya didn't have a way better astronomical knowledge and an extremely more exact and specific calendar than ours... When they didn't even have a writing system.. But they knew all the stars that you can't see with a naked eye and that even we with our technology discovered they were there only by looking exactly where those myths said they were..Right? Thank you all, bye. :)
posted by Yourestupid at Thursday, March-15-2012 15:38pm

Yourestupid

That is real stuff, and the fact that you laugh about it instead of even questioning it for a second shows what a poor person you are. And the fact that you have a blog, says even more. Death to all idiots. So, die.
posted by Yourestupid. at Thursday, March-15-2012 13:02pm

...

you spelled colombia wrong
posted by acw at Monday, March-05-2012 20:31pm

What If?

If I was the caveman that saw a "UFO" land and whatever came out of it told me he was my god, I would most definitely believe it. And would most likely think whatever tech they had was supernatural, or magical. LOL!
posted by Badbill977 at Monday, January-30-2012 22:32pm

PhoneHomer

Hahahaha! I was cracking up reading your article. Great stuff!
posted by E.T. at Tuesday, January-24-2012 16:29pm

Re: Looks like a plane to me

Hey Garbageface, I love your alias.

I think you're wildly mischaracterizing my argument. You suggest my argument is that "it is ridiculous because 'everybody' knows that it is ridiculous and impossible"

That's not my argument at all. All I'm doing is pointing out that there's no evidence that these figurines represent airplanes. In fact, it's pretty clear that they're meant to represent mythical creatures. If you take a look at my latest podcast, in the show notes there's an image of the other so called "jet candidates".

When you look at the "golden flyer" in the context of similar artifacts from the same culture, it's absolutely clear that these are meant to represent mythical creatures.

You can say "it looks kind of like a plane" all day, but in the end that's just on the same level as speculation and not evidence of anything.
posted by Dumbass at Tuesday, January-10-2012 21:42pm

Looks like a plane to me

I'm just saying. The gold thing, whatever it is, looks a lot more like an airplane than it does any living thing that I can think of. Does this mean aliens? I don't see why it should, and I also don't see why it couldn't be. For that matter it could be the result of a vision of the future. Either way, isn't it a glider? What else needs stabilizer fins like that? It could be a cross between a fish and a bird, but ancient peoples don't often forget to put faces on their depictions of creatures. The point is, their conclusion isn't as ridiculous as yours, which seems to rely on the non-logic of "it is ridiculous because 'everybody' knows that it is ridiculous and impossible". Why is that exactly?
posted by garbageface at Tuesday, January-10-2012 14:24pm

Re: Hater

Hi SanDiegoDavina, thanks for writing in.

I'm very confused by your message. You seem to believe that I am being unfair to the Ancient Alien theory in some way. If so, I would very much like to know what I've said that you think is so unfair.

You've accused me of being a dick and throwing insults, but I can't think of a single insult that I've thrown in this article. I certainly don't make it a habit to throw insults around, and if you can show me something I said that was out of line I will be very glad to apologize and correct myself.

Please let me know what I've said that you object to and I promise to address all your concerns in a fair and reasonable manner.
posted by Dumbass at Thursday, January-05-2012 10:20am

Hater

I read your blog because I have watched many episodes of Ancient Aliens. I too have been waiting for the History channel to come up with a show to counter the ancient alien theories. I find both sides interesting. I do agree with your opinion that some of the stuff shown on the show about the golden flyers is silly and far fetched. However, I think you are condescending asshole. At least the theorists present their ideas and evidence with an open mind and positive attitude. I think it's great to question what is presented on Ancient Aliens, but don't be a dick about it. There is a lot on the show that warrants investigation such as unexplainable ancient structures. There are also parts of the show that a exaggerated and laughable. Why don't you make your next blog less asshole like and more scientific? You might actually get people thinking, instead off p***ing people off by throwing insults at scientists on Ancient Aliens. If had to pick a side, I sure wouldn't agree with an uneducated tool bag blogger like you. Instead of dissing ancient alien scientists, why don't you take a look in the mirror and analyze yourself!
posted by SanDiegoDavina at Wednesday, January-04-2012 22:29pm

untitled

I only skimmed this comment but I found endless humor in it.

Posted by Daybreaker:
"You are a theorist, not an absolute historically and scientifically-proven author of ABSOLUTE fact. Unlike the Ancient Aliens guys though, you belittle/insult those with whom your theories disagree (calling the whole concept of the show "comical") instead of merely presenting your arguments as a possibility like they do. Nobody on that show ever seems as absolute about themselves as you do yourself."

That's laughable, as if there isn't mud being slung by both sides. I've only watched a few episodes and I can tell you that at any chance they get they make themselves out to be wrongfully persecuted in the scientific community. Why would that come as a surprise? The scientific community ignores the claims of fellow scientists and here you have fiction authors and in the case of "Crazy Hair" Tsoukalos, sports communication majors.

I have heard dialogue on the show at times along the lines of "How can you not believe this, what are you stupid?" after demonstrating the "irrefutable evidence". I say this because their evidence is almost always farfetched or out of context, which wouldn't be a big deal but as Dumbass stated "But a lot of people take this stuff seriously, and don't have the knowledge necessary to analyze these claims critically". This is what makes this format of information dangerous, people are only getting one look at these theories. "Nobody on that show ever seems as absolute about themselves as you [Dumbass]". This is clearly false or they would not have made it past season 1 without impressing their views on the viewers.

It would be nice if the History Channel released a debunking of the Ancient Aliens theories like they did with Debunking 9/11 Myths (I rather enjoyed that). Since they haven't yet I theorize (:D) it's probably because they don't have the desire (not to mention it would kill the series), not because they can't debunk these theories.

People are largely all hypocritical, it's in our nature to insult others who don't agree with us on certain issues. I actually respect Dumbass for making it a topic of his blog and a hilarious read. If you take offense to that then I suggest you don't read it and miss out on the laughs instead.

It's trending dangerously that people will question things for the sole purpose of questioning, without the provision of evidence to warrant it.
posted by Brian at Tuesday, November-08-2011 13:03pm

ancient idiots

I wish aliens really were visiting us, but not enough to make myself believe this crap.
I think there are some interesting mysteries and coincidences, but not enough to make these leaps of logic.
Just consider occham's razor...
Fyi, you should see the crap they are claiming in season 3, virgin mary was an alien i guess.
It's too bad the history channel is dumbing down so much.
Try history international.
Also, The Whitest kids u know have a funny sketch about dinosaurs having laser guns during the civil war, and one of the history channel executives gets p***es... it's funny as hell.
posted by ernie poop at Thursday, September-22-2011 20:20pm

untitled

Hilarious! Absolutely agree with your blog! Without any scientific evidence the "ancient alien theorists" make wild leaps of faith, and manage to extraploate each prior wild leap with a new leap twice as long. I, too, found the thimble-sized "alien aircraft model" an uproar. I do think Giorgio is enthusistically engaging, and he has great hair, but as someone who sounds reasonably intelligent, how can he possibly believe his own words? Amazing, but von Daniken has actually sold 62 million worldwide copies of books on this subject! Regarding the building of ancient structures, I simply will say that if I write exactly one page of a novel every single day for 60 years, my novel would be 21,900 pages long--one page per day. Concentration of effort, a sophisticated mathematical system, and 10,000 strong working bit-by-bit, block-by-block made the pyramids--and all other ancient structures, for that matter, not aliens.
posted by Metal Friend at Monday, September-19-2011 14:21pm

Re: ......

Hey Andrew,

I really appreciate your comment, thanks for writing in!

Regarding religion, I'm perfectly willing to analyze and criticize religious claims. But I'm not sure about the idea that the skeptic movement should be focusing it's priorities and only calling out pseudoscience when it does the most harm.

I think there's a lot of nonsense out there, and the more of it we can cover the better. I could certainly focus on alternative medicine if I wanted to, and many blogs do. That's one really messed up pseudoscience that does a lot of harm to society right there. Creationists trying to "teach the controversy" or prevent homosexual marriage are very concerning, but I think if I was looking for something even more dangerous it would be alternative medicine.

But I know that there are a hell of a lot of people who are already covering topics like these, and I think it's also important to analyze claims even when they represent little danger to society. Facts and context are important in all areas of life.

I think you're absolutely right that the Ancient Alien theorists don't have any real regard for the evidence. But they pretend that they do, and their rhetoric certainly has the power to convince people who may be on the fence. I think it's important to put the other side of the argument out there, and it's one of those topics that I just find very interesting.

And my basic purpose in starting this blog was to write about critical thinking issues that I personally find interesting, so I'm going to continue tackling Ancient Alien claims. But I do appreciate your very thoughtful comment.
posted by Dumbass at Wednesday, September-07-2011 16:00pm

......

Dumbass you missed the point of the show entirely. They are not trying to prove the ancient alien theory by finding evidence. They are already certain about the existence of extraterrestrials due to first encounters in the past 70 years. There is not a doubt in the minds of the people responsible for making this show that UFOs are real. They simply look at history through that lens. So any artifact which seems complicated at first will surely be the creation of an alien force.

I was brought up in a pentecostal, tongue-speaking church being taught that the Gospels were eye-witness accounts. I grew up and learned my history about the Gospels and how the Bible came to be. And now I am no longer a tongue-speaking, homosexual-hating, hypocritical Christian individual. But history doesn't usually end a person's faith. Most are capable of reconciling faith with fact, most of the time rejecting fact in favor of faith. My turning point came when reading an abduction account from Brazil. If I were willing to accept the gospels as truth because they are eye witness accounts, and reconciled that I was taught a lie in college, what stops me from believing in UFOs or aliens? :think:

I guess my point is that you should spend time debunking religions since they are the ones keeping our country from moving forward. UFO believers are not the people stopping stem cell research, or equal rights for women, homosexuals, the right of mosques to be built in a supposedly free nation... Other than that, your site is great.
posted by Andrew at Wednesday, September-07-2011 15:19pm

Re Improbable vs. impossible

Hey Daybreaker,

Thank you for the really long and detailed comment. I feel like you deserve a fitting response, and I apologize that I haven't been able to up till now. I'd like to read your email in my next podcast episode and give you my thorough response to your comments. Keep a lookout for it!
posted by Dumbass at Tuesday, June-21-2011 09:38am

Improbable vs. impossible

I agree that many of the arguments used on Ancient Aliens are weak and technically/historically incorrect. That does not completely negate their theories to me though.

For all the knowledge we have, and for all the logic we employ that stems from that knowledge, there is still not a 100% concrete answer to many ancient questions. There is no concrete proof, nor disproof that aliens have visited this planet. So what we're dealing with (from everyone) are a lot of theories, not concrete facts.

Where I have a problem with Ancient Aliens and your assessments are that both present your theories as concrete fact. If not presented that way, you at least cling to your beliefs with such distain for the other side that is does indeed make a casual reader wonder if you (or the makers of Ancient Aliens) are open-minded enough to admit that you simply don't know how the pyramids were built, why the "delta wing" models were built, and a host of other things.

From the standpoint that you don't absolutely know these things, how can you be so confident in your correctness to the point that you are willing to call those who disagree "comical?"

A lot of things are VERY obvious! The sun and moon both revolve around earth--which is flat. To suggest otherwise is proposterous, because if Earth was moving, we'd feel it move. If it were round, it wouldn't look flat. Who wants to be the "crackpot" who tries to debunk the obvious? Mankind was held back for thousands of years by those who presented very concrete answers to real questions. Their arrogance and sense of being "correct" fueled ignorance for a LONG time.

My point? Solid observation and logic, even when things are obvious (like the sun "moving" across the sky) can work against humanity finding the answers we seek. We seek those answers (how the pyramids were built, etc) because nobody truly knows. Many theories have been presented over the years, and until a concrete, absolute answer is found, that practice should not be discouraged...no matter how improbable, because the trust is NOTHING is impossible yet. For all we know, a huge frog built the pyramids, then it left for Mars. EXTREMELY doubtful, but it cannot be ruled out 100% because in matters of uncertainty, there is always uncertainty. Improbable dos NOT mean impossible.

You and Ancient Aliens both do the same thing...attempt to answer age-old questions with theories. That's what scientists and historians do. That's what Galileo was doing before he got arrested by the Catholic Church for suggesting something CRAZY...like Jupiter having satellites. I'm not going to suggest that Georgio Tsukalos will go down in history as the next Galileo, but there's a one in a billion chance that aliens are going to land tomorrow and tell us that he was right. You're going to feel like an idiot if that day ever comes. ...And even though it probably won't, you need to learn to respect those whose theories vary from yours, because you, like the Ancient Aliens guys, are NOT perfect. Your theories, while logical, are NOT absolute. You must be open to the idea that you are the Pope in this situation, and not Galileo. No matter how unlikely, you need to have the same humility that the rest of us do...the humility is NOT knowing EXACTLY who we (or the pyramids, etc) got here.

You are a theorist, not an absolute historically and scientifically-proven author of ABSOLUTE fact. Unlike the Ancient Aliens guys though, you belittle/insult those with whom your theories disagree (calling the whole concept of the show "comical") instead of merely presenting your arguments as a possibility like they do. Nobody on that show ever seems as absolute about themselves as you do yourself. If you showed more respect for those you debunk it would greatly strengthen your argument. Instead you come across like the Pope vs. Galileo--dictating what is absolute scientific "fact"--everything revolves around the earth. Look around you, except for occasional retrograde motion in their paths across the sky, it's obvious! I'd argue that aside from tiny airplane-looking thingys, it's obvious that you are right. Like retrograde motion, those little "airplanes" could (I repeat, no matter how unlikely, they COULD) be a clue that what seems obvious is not. The best and most important scientific discoveries in history have been made that way. The worst, least productive times in science have been caused by those who defend the status quo with ridicule and dislike in their hearts.

Don't be that guy. While you are probably right, you may just be holding back mankind for 1000 years. Be aware of that, and speak and behave accordingly.
posted by Daybreaker at Saturday, June-11-2011 21:10pm

and the Saqqara bird flies like a brick

Ouch
http://www.catchpenny.org/birdtest.html

Of course the model they've perfected until it flies for the Ancient Alien show did fly in the end and the narrator added the extra words of amazement... but the original can stay on its shelf in the mueum with the other bird models.
posted by Espressofrog at Friday, February-04-2011 03:57am

untitled

Would you rather watch AxMen on the History Channel? Geez...
posted by kittyhawk flyer at Saturday, January-01-2011 16:33pm

Re: Some observations

Hi Gabe! Wow, you've really done your homework on this stuff! Thank you for all the new information, I'm going to have to put some of that together for future reference. I really appreciate the effort you put into writing these long posts for me. Do you run any kind of blog or website on this subject?
posted by Dumbass at Sunday, December-26-2010 18:12pm

Re: Some Questions

Hi Curious, thanks for stopping by! You bring up some very interesting questions, and I think I'd like to tackle them either in an article or a podcast. This should provide a great opportunity for me to talk about epistemological matters. I'll get to that soon.
posted by Dumbass at Sunday, December-26-2010 18:09pm

Some observations

I have read your writings on all 5 episodes, and think you raise some good points. I find the hypothesis for ancient aliens an interesting one, and am also looking at evidence I can find. I wanted to add some observations, if you don't mind.

First, the difference between jet engines and rocket propulsion. They operate on different principles. A jet engine sucks in air, then blasts kerosene in a compressed chamber, igniting this mix.

Rocket propulsion, on the other hand, works by pushing out mass. Think of it this way. If you stand on a boat in a river, and jump in the water, the boat moves in the opposite direction. Your mass leaving the boat propels it in the opposite direction. In a rocket, you have huge quantities (tons) of compressed propulsion material, including oxygen and kerosene. This mass leaving is what propels the rocket forward.

So, what I'm getting to, a rocket works in space, but a jet engine does not. Therefore, it makes little sense to bring jet fighters along on a trip if you are an alien. Moreover, you would need similar temperature and oxygen to get the jet engine working. In effect, you would have to design the jet fighter for the planet, in essence. Thus, I think you can safely discard jet engines and jet fighters as part of the alien visiting force.

So, what about rocket propulsion? Given that you need mass leaving the rocket, the rocket is getting lighter and lighter the longer it works, and thus is running out of fuel quickly. Of course, once it has left Earth's gravity field, it no longer needs to fight against this force, and can drift, or even join/leave an orbital trajectory.

Now, the problem is this. If you want to travel to stars that are several light years away, you need massive amounts of fuel. Rocket propulsion is really inefficient. That is why we could not make it to Mars yet, and that planet is close! So, alien rockets would have to be gigantic.

Wings also do not make sense, unless you are inside the atmosphere. Perhaps, the winged airplanes are used to enter the planet's atmosphere while the gigantic rockets are waiting in orbit. However, to leave Earth's gravity, the little shuttles would need massive rocket engines. Even the space shuttles are attached to a conventional rocket to leave Earth. So, the plane design shown in the show would probably not work outside Earth's atmosphere.

In fact, given how inefficient current rockets are, I would be surprised if aliens used this technology to travel. After all, who would waste gasoline the size of planets just to take a trip? I think it is highly unlikely that alien spaceships would resemble aircraft or rocket technology currently used on Earth. The fact that some figures resemble airplanes is thus no indication of space worthy technology. Wind tunnels are thus also completely useless, unless we're planning for airplanes that stay in the atmosphere.

Fact is, we have no clue how an alien space ship should look like, as its design would be influenced by whatever propulsion technology they use (if any). Perhaps there are other ways for travel that we have not invented yet, somewhere along the lines of teleportation. If the figures really resemble aircraft, one might also claim it is proof that mankind has invented time travel in the future :)
posted by Gabe at Saturday, December-25-2010 23:34pm

Some Questions

Just wondering about how to answer some more questions that aren't fully described by this program in question but worth investigation.

Why did a highly organized very efficient quite successful German Heads of State in WWII seek and search for ancient artifacts and wild esoteric objects? Is this seeking a lie or overblown, or was it just a strange coincidence? If so what about the founding fathers of the united states and bizarre coincidences of the layout of washington d.c., and great seal and dollar bill. Once again are these just overblown coincidence? The main question is why do these things exist amongst others beyond just lunatics if they in fact did any of these things.

Why are unknown mysteries of the past often dubiously claimed to be something simpler and validated with ocam's razor, if by the same standard i was to apply the creation of intelligent beings only being replicated so far by other intelligent beings. . then how do we accept highly intelligent life from primordial soup, if the simplest solution could be just that . . perhaps they should have been created by other intelligent beings. Or if life was created once from a very wild and expansive explosion, why is it so far fetched to believe that it doesn't exist again and again. Especially when most scientists will assume that time is bendable relative and theoretically able to be traveled through.

Don't get me wrong i'm not attempting to state these theories as true. . I just often get upset when i see that people who claim answers in science are often forgetful in some areas of comparison but not others. Not to mention very advancing science has very peculiar results. I still am perplexed by light wave particle theory, general relativity, etc.

At some point many people theorize that something is just impossible (or hide with just so highly improbably which should equate to impossible because no real investigation will ever be given), but at some level of science many things are completely unknown. At these points many pseudo scientists just gravitate to a common belief and reiterate old dogma when in the end it was people with hunches and ideas who began to investigate things further and more deliberate often questioning their own held beliefs who actually discovered something unbelievable at the time.

I don't think ancient aliens is a great bullet proof theory that one should belive. . . but I don't think its as laughable as made out to be.

I don't see very many scientists trying to solve gaps in evolution, or discover how exactly intelligence developed from apes and so rapidly although very few have any problems just accepting general slow steady evolution theory (which authors such as Steven J Gould) show many gaping holes inside.

I don't want to get too quacky so i'll stop here. . I'm not advocating all these theories etc. . but i am just pointing out some things that frustrate me when i read forums. People get really angry fast and then slap together things within 30 min and never really get into examining more and more to determine more. They accept their hypthosis immediately and search for evidence to only back it up.
posted by Curious at Saturday, December-25-2010 00:33am

Re: Untitled

Hey Markus0012.

I appreciate your vote of confidence in my abilities, and your willingness to come out of the gate swinging. Unfortunately, though, I think that all the believers who posted here have stopped checking in. But maybe you'll get the heckles up of some other believer that happens to stop by. :D
posted by Dumbass at Thursday, November-25-2010 17:24pm

untitled

Were do all you freaks come from? Yes I am insulting you: you who wish to believe this nonsense. Don't you have the intelligence to analyze the leaps in logic needed to justify these theories?

Can't you yourselves critically evaluate the show as Dumbass has done. He so easily pokes craters in their alien arguments that you should be embarrassed to try and refute him.
posted by Markus0012 at Thursday, November-25-2010 16:18pm

Re: Dumbdown?

Okay Average Joe, sorry for the delay, but I've got some time to answer you now:

> If ridicule is your true intent (as you indicate in
> your first sentence), your commentary needs to
> be at least as entertaining as the subject it's trying
> to debunk. Your writing relies far too much on
> sarcasm - the lowest form of humor - to ever
> achieve that comedic aim.

Since when is sarcasm the lowest form of humour? Many comedians use sarcasm to great effect. Jerry Seinfeld, Jim Carey, Ellen Degeneres, Jeff Foxworthy... they all use sarcasm regularly in their comedy. Hell, just look at Lewis Black, he's a master of comedic sarcasm!

Your statement that sarcasm is the lowest form of comedy is completely and verifiably untrue. You might as well argue that up is down or back is front.

> On the other hand, if your aim is to root out
> 'false and misleading claims' (which is what
> you assert in your last sentence), then I'd ask
> what evidence you rely on to make your
> rebuttals? The same, I assume, as the original
> program proponents - historical text, expert
> opinion and, dare I say it, wikipedia? Only a
> brave man (or a fool) would claim to be able
> to decipher the wheat from the chaff in that
> ensemble.

When I point out somebody's faulty logic, I'm using well understood principles of sound reasoning in order to show that the claims being made don't stand up to scrutiny. Whenever I dispute somebody's facts, I always give links to my sources and you can decide for yourself how reliable they are.

> Are you perhaps motivated by a search for
> 'the truth'? If so, I believe your considerable
> efforts would be better served by countering
> the veritable torrent of 'disinformation' meted
> out daily by the instruments of business and
> government (of which most of us 'Average
> Joes' are already painfully aware), rather than
> focus on a piece designed to elevate the
> consciousness not dumb it down.

Well, I tackle many different subjects in my articles on this blog, I try to handle the torrent of disinformation out there as best as possible. But I'm not sure why you think this program should be immune from my analysis. Why do you think that it "elevates the consciousness"? I've written 5 articles sequentially analyzing the claims, and am now at the halfway point of the episode. As of yet, I haven't found a single valid claim.

Why should I consider this program worthwhile when they so flagrantly abuse logic and reason? Why should I allow them to spread this kind of deception?

Are you arguing that this program should be immune from criticism just because it excites the imagination? I think that's an incredibly poor reason for me to hold my tongue.

> Finally, if (like the majority of people
> who've taken the time to comment on
> your blog), you were genuinely engaged
> by the program and the broader, existential
> questions it sought to address (why spend
> so much time on it if it didn't at least intrigue
> you?), then I think it deserves a more
> respectful treatment than you give it - see
> my earlier post. Certainly judging by the
> comments on your site, you haven't attracted a
> massive fan base for your efforts.

Well, you're certainly right that I don't have a "massive fan base"... however, I've received quite a lot of positive commentary, especially on my articles about ancient aliens. I'm not sure why you think that most of the commenters on my blog are negative. After you wrote that letter, I had a look at all my blog comments and broke them down by type:

23 Positive Comments - Either agreeing with me or praising my work

9 Neutral Comments - Either took a neutral position, or if they disagreed with me they kept it positive and we had a good conversation about it.

9 Negative Comments - Either disagreeing with or berating me.

I've also received several very complimentary emails, especially by people who enjoyed my coverage of the Ancient Aliens show.

Now, I realize that I'm not in the big leagues in any way, so this shouldn't be interpreted as a boast. But I think the evidence clearly shows that there's at least a small audience out there that genuinely enjoys what I have to say, so I see no reason to let them down and stop saying it.
posted by Dumbass at Friday, November-12-2010 20:38pm

Re: Hey Dumb Ass! I'm with Average Joe on this!

Hi Robbie,

I'll answer the rest of Joe's message when I have time, but I'll put in a brief response to the Einstein quote. Yes, it does seem like a convenient quote for Einstein to have made, and I was wondering myself whether he actually said it.

The only thing I can tell you is that I did an extensive search and wasn't able to find a single example of this quote in any iteration attributed to anybody except for Albert Einstein.

If Einstein isn't the source of this quote, and if you can find me the true source, I would very much love to hear about it.
posted by Dumbass at Wednesday, November-10-2010 13:50pm

Hey Dumb Ass! I'm with Average Joe on this!

The only time that I am aware that Albert Einstein was derogatory about humanity was at the outset of the first World War when he referred to humanity as being 'a pathetic little species'; however he most definitely did say that whilst "knowledge and facts are good, yet imagination is better."
posted by Robbie Dull'ard at Wednesday, November-10-2010 11:03am

Re: Dumbdown?

No... but I fear you're a dumbass who believes he's not. Consider the 'evidence'.

If ridicule is your true intent (as you indicate in your first sentence), your commentary needs to be at least as entertaining as the subject it's trying to debunk. Your writing relies far too much on sarcasm - the lowest form of humor - to ever achieve that comedic aim.

On the other hand, if your aim is to root out 'false and misleading claims' (which is what you assert in your last sentence), then I'd ask what evidence you rely on to make your rebuttals? The same, I assume, as the original program proponents - historical text, expert opinion and, dare I say it, wikipedia? Only a brave man (or a fool) would claim to be able to decipher the wheat from the chaff in that ensemble.

Are you perhaps motivated by a search for 'the truth'? If so, I believe your considerable efforts would be better served by countering the veritable torrent of 'disinformation' meted out daily by the instruments of business and government (of which most of us 'Average Joes' are already painfully aware), rather than focus on a piece designed to elevate the consciousness not dumb it down.

Finally, if (like the majority of people who've taken the time to comment on your blog), you were genuinely engaged by the program and the broader, existential questions it sought to address (why spend so much time on it if it didn't at least intrigue you?), then I think it deserves a more respectful treatment than you give it - see my earlier post. Certainly judging by the comments on your site, you haven't attracted a massive fan base for your efforts.

In summary, I'd say that anyone who authors a self advertised 'guide to knowledge' and then supposedly quotes Einstein in order to add weight to his assertions (by the way, where and when did Einstein say that - I've never come across that quote and I'm reasonably familiar with his original texts?), deserves a bit of ridicule himself.
posted by Average Joe at Tuesday, November-09-2010 17:31pm

Re: Dumbdown?

Hey Average Joe. Thanks for stopping by.

I'm not sure why you think that I don't like the Ancient Aliens series. I find it hilarious. I ridicule it because it's comically ridiculous.

I'm not sure what exactly your argument is. You believe that the show stimulates people's imagination and sense of wonder... okay, I have no problem with that. But it's still making one hell of a lot of false and misleading claims. Is there some particular reason that I should bite my tongue and avoid pointing that out?
posted by Dumbass at Tuesday, November-09-2010 13:40pm

Dumbdown?

My partner and I came across 'The Dumbasses Guide to Knowledge' whilst researching the mercury gyroscope alluded to Ancient Aliens. Like you, we found this particular notion of physics unconvincing. Unlike you, however, we found much of the content of the series fascinating and highly entertaining as, no doubt, it was intended to be. Let's face it, no one's threatening to burn you at the stake if you don't buy into its arguments - nor are its proponents calling themselves anything much other than 'theorists'!

Rather than stimulate belief in a lie (which unfortunately your commentary implies), I think the film is seeking to stimulate further interest in an area that many consider a distinct possibility - or at least a legitimate line of enquiry - that we are not alone in the universe. Also to inspire viewers to do their own research and arrive at their own conclusions in order to advance their personal knowledge. You admit yourself that the film has inspired you to undertake a great deal of research - indeed, to analyze the content minute-by-minute - in order to become less of a 'dumbass'.

I think that's great! We too found ourselves revisiting old texts, theories and conundrums to see whether our current interpretation and understanding of things needed revising.

However, I do find the tone of your commentary unnecessarily cynical and dismissive - and sadly, bordering on arrogant.

Please do remember that the greatest scientists and thinkers throughout history (Copernicus, Einstein, Newton, Tesla, Crick....) have all fundamentally challenged accepted wisdom in order to produce paradigm shifts in our understanding of the world, many of them ridiculed at the time by their less 'visionary' colleagues. Also remember that scientific or existential enquiry often leads to blind alleys in its search for the 'truth'. This does not invalidate the effort - it is merely part of the process.

In this light, I sincerely hope that in your own search for meaning (or an alternative income stream as you mention in an earlier entry?), you don't succeed in putting people off watching this interesting and thought-provoking series. In my opinion, not only are people capable of sifting though the 'incredible' to entertain and debate the 'possible', but also anything that perverts that process (either through malicious intent or plain ignorance), is little more that a dumbdown.
posted by Average Joe at Tuesday, November-09-2010 08:58am

Re: There's nothing wrong with skeptisism

Hey Dan, thanks for writing in.

You asked me to "Live and let live. Don't insult.". I think you're seriously misreading my article here if you saw some sort of insult in there. I feel free to make fun of the things that people say, but I try not to attack or insult individuals as a matter of policy. If you saw me hurl some sort of unfair personal insult in this article, please point it out to me.

You call me a "debunker" and say that I "don't want to be bothered by evidence". Well, I'm not a debunker. I don't set out to debunk anything. Looking at the evidence is the first thing I do, and if it turns out that the evidence is bunk, then I guess by pointing that out I've "debunked" it. But the evidence is first and foremost on my mind. I've written 5 articles so far analyzing half the claims made in the Ancient Aliens evidence show, and several others on related issues. The evidence is what I deal with, it's the whole point of my articles.

Seriously, I want to be bothered by the evidence. It's the main thing that I actually do want to be bothered by. If you think you have some compelling evidence that can convince me, why don't you send me an email and we can discuss it?
posted by Dumbass at Friday, November-05-2010 21:27pm

There's nothing wrong with skeptisism

But you and other "debunkers" have an almost predatory thirst to attack anything considered paranormal, fringe, etc. I'm not making a personal attack, I just think you are a product of successful programming. Live and let live. Don't insult. I don't know why you and professional skeptics have to defend your viewpoints as if it a partisan issue. There are shades of gray. There are several examples that do not deserve to be dismissed so easily. It wouldn't hurt to play devil's advocate with yourself and explore the possibilities.
When ideas are squashed so hastily, it suggests prejudice, or supression to me. You and other "mainstreamers" have your opinion, and don't want to be bothered by evidence. Seriously. This is possible. And since it is possible, it is potentially the single most important concept any of us will ever contemplate. Hell, if it's possible, it may be a reality we will ALL be forced to face in the near future. Just like planning for retirement, it would be wise for us to plan for our future. You don't have to admit it to the world, but you should think about how you would feel, in that event.
posted by dan at Friday, November-05-2010 20:11pm

Re: Close minded much?

Have I spent a lot of time researching this information? Absolutely! I've so far spent an inordinate amount of time researching every single claim made in the first half of the Ancient Aliens show. And I've done further research of my own accord as well.

If you believe that I made an error in my analysis, please tell me what facts I got wrong and I will correct my mistakes right away.

But just telling me that I'm wrong without backing that up doesn't really add much to this discussion.
posted by Dumbass at Sunday, October-10-2010 18:27pm

Close minded much?

So you saw a show on The History Channel and thought you were gonna watch and then laugh but became an expert on analyzing ancient artifacts and their true meaning? Have you ever really spent anytime like at least a year researching this information? I doubt it but I have and sorry but it's not crap. People take it seriously because it's ignored. You have been lied to about everything, doesn't that bother you? History taught in schools is a joke. I don't remember most of it because it's not very relevant to me. Everything I have found about hidden histories are much more revealing as are the stories that we have been told that are hugely over exaggerated. It's really amazing.

I do believe our ancestors were not as dumb as people make them out to be. I do believe civilizations have been techonologically advanced in their own way. There is proof of that as well but their methods are methods that have obviously been lost or kept secret thru the ages.
posted by mblah at Sunday, October-10-2010 12:10pm

Re: Why?

Thanks for writing KRedford.

As far as valid points raised by the show, I've written three articles sequentially analyzing the segments of the show so far, and have yet to come across a single one. I'm going to continue my analysis though, so perhaps I'll eventually run into a valid point or two.

You mention tool marks. What's interesting about that claim is that it was made by a guy who works with modern power tools, and who says that some of the marks on these ancient artifacts look suspiciously like the marks left by modern tools.

I'll grant that this man is knowledgeable about the kinds of marks left by modern power tools. But he's not an expert in ancient tools. What reason does he have to think that ancient tools would not have left similar marks? After all, they're performing the same function. They probably cut the rock in a similar way to modern power tools, just a whole lot slower.

Now, if an expert in ancient tools came on and said "There's no way these marks were made by the tools they were using at the time.", then I might give that some credence. But in the absence of that, they don't really have much going for them here. Their choice of "experts" is decidedly poor.
posted by Dumbass at Friday, August-06-2010 13:49pm

Why?

There are holes in the logic of the 'ancient astronaut theorists', i'm not denying that. There ARE quantum leaps in terms of jumping to conclusions. But there are STILL several valid points made by the show. Example; the structures made of gigantic stones with computer-like precision, with marks of tools left on them? You can not deny that sounds fishy. I'm not saying that i believe that aliens came down and inter-bred with us to create a master race, but the notion that there is all of this evidence pointing to one central, crazy idea, simply makes you think. If this isn't inspiring, i don't know what is.
posted by KRedford at Thursday, August-05-2010 23:24pm

Re: Laugh Now

I'm not sure I understand your criticism. Which technology am I "dismissing the possibility" that we will be able to achieve?

In this article, I mentioned gliders, fighter jets, and propeller planes. We've already achieved each of those technologies.

I don't deny that we have the ability to use this technology... only that our ancient ancestors did.
posted by Dumbass at Friday, July-23-2010 18:48pm

Laugh now

It's as if you're entirely dismissing the possibility of these types of systems being achieved. Laugh now, but one day soon enough this technology will be emplemented. I hope it happens while you're around, so you can say "dang, I guess I was wrong"
posted by CBR900RR at Friday, July-23-2010 16:28pm

Untitled

For that matter, the Egyptians and Mayans were very far apart, time line wise.
posted by Mike at Saturday, June-05-2010 10:45am

Re: Missing Historical Value

Definitely - and this especially applies to examples like the pyramids where people say "The ancient Egyptians couldn't possibly have built those.... Aliens must have done it!!!".

I'm still amazed, though, at this idea that a bird figurine is "evidence" that aliens taught the Egyptians how to make gliders.... and then convinced them to launch them from catapults.

As for inter-dimensional orangutan nazi's... that's one documentary that I really want to see!! :clap:
posted by Dumbass at Monday, May-03-2010 19:35pm

Missing Historical Value

I think the saddest part of all this is the total disrespect shown to what are otherwise fascinating historical finds. Why do people feel the need to dress up ancient cultures in pseudo-scientific nonsense? Aren't the real artistic and engineering achievements of these cultures enough to inspire and captivate people?

I imagine 500 years from now the history "holo-transmitter" will be beaming immersive cereberal data-packets describing how WWII was actually fought between inter-dimensional orangutan nazi's and the allied forces of the trans-galactic android alliance.
posted by Cpolsonb at Monday, May-03-2010 09:08am

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